Won't Run With Air Cleaner Buttoned UP

[dagowopboy]

Hello. I will give a quick run down on stuff done.

1985 Spree DeLuxe 265miles (I beleive it too)
1) Soaked and cleaned carb and can see light through all holes. Air and carb fluid runs through just fine. No leaks from gaskets. Air adjust at 1.5 turn out. Throttle has to be at 1 turn out. Disabled bystarter so it is down (no choke) all the time).
2) New plugs, nice blue spark - tried two spark plugs.
3) Pulled muffler - no apparent blockage but seems to have some back pressure when blowing in it.
4) Checked the exhaust port and there is no carbon build up.
5) Compression is 120 lbs after a few seconds of electric crank
6) Clean tank, new gas, gas flows freely when lsucking in on vacuum hose
7) Inspected oil pump and is nt jambed. cable rotates freely.
Pulled intake manifold and checked reed valves and they are good

So here is the deal. It will start. Won't idle unless you give it a little gas. It revs up slowly and reluctantly and not real high.

If I put in the foam air cleanng element it will still start and run as above. But when I snap down the aircleaner top and cover the screw hole with my finger, it will bog and die. Heck even removing your finger from the screw hole helps keep it alive just a little bit more. The key is the Aircleaner top. With or without the foam element in it.

Obviously it is running best case rich and super rich and dies whith the cover on! But what the heck is it. I am betting the muffler but don't wan to buy one to find out!

I have never seen the thing run and the lady said it worked fine ten years ago when she parked the machine. The carb was so bad I had to drill out some passages to get them cleaned out! No I did not drill through the main jet, the air jet or any machined specific orifices.

Soooooo?

* Cecchini

[darat]

Well i didnt know that honda made a spree deluxe? If so i would like to see some pics. i think u mean a 85 Honda spree

[dagowopboy]

The 1986 spree was available in red or black. This unit is white with teal decals and a grey seat. The part is a NQ50D(I assume the D stands for deluxe also) AND it has "Deluxe" stickers on it. Now what made it deluxe is beyond me because it appears to be normal for the color offering. The story I was tols was the boyfriend did not like the standard colors so he "ordered" this version.

After it runs well I will post pics of the puppy with my happy college daughter motoring around the U of Minnesota.

But the bigger issue is what will make this puppy work? Right now I would classify this one as noluxe.

*

[darat]

hey noiseguy they only made a nq50 and a nq50s right the s stands for the special one right.

[dagowopboy]

Hey go to this site and it gives a description of the machine - http://www.sonicjay.com/spree/. The NQ50D is described as a special edition. But I can tell you the front fender has "Deluxe" decals on either side.

Back to the problem at hand ............

Hey If you solve my problem I will take a picture ASAP and email it to you

[darat]

the thing that messed me up was the u said it was a 85 the special was only made in 86

[burnt_toast]

deluxe or not he's just trying to get it running right.

Open up the carb and make sure its the correct jet, then play around with the carb settings to lean it out a bit if its too rich. Also try cracking open the airbox w/ filter in it. at some altitudes this helps, others u have to close it. try that and see what happens.

[darat]

but still there is no deluxe spree that is a special but not a deluxe just pointing that out

[dagowopboy]

Definitely will move - barely - if you just plain old fashioned remove the air box cover and filter. But is still rich as heck. I can push down the needle and it is still the same. The main is stamped 65. It visually looks much small than other mukuni mains I have laying around. The idel screw is in all the way just to get it too idle. Playing withthe enrichening screw has very little effect at all.

The last time I saw something lie k this was an old suzuki 50 and the exhaust port was practically closed with carbon. This is not the case here becuase I have checked it.

I was wondering is ten years of standing out in the cold could have ruined one of the crank seals bad enough that I cannot get good enough crank draw.

The only thning that goes in the face of that is if I cut off the gas and let it run down for a brief few seconds beofre it runs out of gas, it leans out enough to rev and run great - points me back to the carb.

Keep more ideas coming

[darat]

the crank bearings might of cracked of all of thos years outside. It is sad to see such a great bike in the cold like that.

[MySpree]

i have extra crank berings.

[uspmale]

I had the exact same problem.
It turned out to be in the by starter circuit.
Check everything including the pickup tube in the bowl. And make sure the pin hole in the bowl tube is clear.
The pick up tube for the bystarter tends to loosen up over the years, if this happens it will screw up your mixture setting.
Let me know how this works, greg

[dagowopboy]

I have completely disabled the bystarter (fuel enrichment circuit) as part of the troubleshooting.

The machine is in a warm environment. It also starts great because the thing is running super rich! Why do I think it is running rich?

STATE - Air cleaner cover off and filter out.
1) It can idle.
2) It can rev up slowly with a lot of smoke.
3) I can idle better if I pull the vacuum hose for the gas valve.

State - Air cleaner cover on.
1) Can only idle if I pull the throttle up
2) Will not rev up enough to even engage the clutch.

State - remove fuel supply
1) When the carbs starts to run low on fuel it idles well and runs great with super power for the brief 5 seconds - The float numbers are correct according to the numbers. This is a non adjust anyway and there is no liquid in the float that would effect bowl fuel level

Tried the puppy with the muffler off basically the same. Air cleaner cover on and it is a dog.

Can I see light throught the idel jet? Yes
Are there any blockages in the air mixture passages? NO
Can I see light through the main and needle jet passage YES
The jet is a # 65 - This is the correct main for the '86 - Correct?

Is the #65 main really a 65? I do not know

One thing that is odd is the needle jet has an extreme (long neck beer bootle like) taper to it. Much more that I am used to seeing on other small two strokes. Is this a standard needle profile?

Why do some of you think the crank bearings are bad? There is no whine or howling associated with the engine turning over or when running? They would have to be really bad to case a case seal problem, If they were that bad wouldn't I hear them?

Thanks

[uspmale]

Still to rich? It's definitely in the carb!!
Something in the needle jet or loose main, causing to let in to much fuel.
After closer examination you will find a wrong needle jet or even a crack in the carb housing causing the problem.
Swap out to a known good carb and you just isolated the problem.
I hate to see a guy go through all that trouble-shooting with out a positive result.
With the air cleaner off, run engine while using a light to peer into the piston slide of carb. You should see a mist of fuel air during idle and midrange, not spittting fuel coming out through the main jet.This trick can save untold hours in diagnostics. Correcting a rich circuit is anther story. Further investigation is in order. Good luck,been there, done that.greg

[lonelywanderer]

deluxe spee's are the sh*-..... hopefully you got a white one