So I've got this SA50P, a bit ago I switched out the carb and muffler for brand new SA50 versions (I had to grind out a bit in the muffler to make it fit on but it fits), and basically that took me from a bike that barely ran, and when it did run it struggled to pull 15 up the hill of a small bridge to a bike that doesn't even while to go 30 up some pretty serious bridges. But it has a bit of trouble still.
Namely, it doesn't really like to go over 30, it does but it takes a long flat straightaway, this is undoubtedly because I haven't taken the variator restrictor plate off yet. And I have a good reason for that! I can't get the dang bolt off! Even got an impact wrench but that just made a lot of noise. I should mention we don't have any good way of holding on to the crank, I tried my hand, my hand with gloves on, holding onto the belt, not holding it in any way, and it's just not budging at all. Additionally there's a debate between me and my dad between which way we need to turn it to turn it off; when I look at the way everything turns I assume you would want the nut to be tightened by the rotation of it's shaft, which would mean clockwise, but he insists that it would have to be counterclockwise because he says so.
The next biggest problem is that when I start it on a cold night after work it shakes almost violent, then later after running for as little as a quarter mile at parking lot speeds it calms down entirely. Is this even a problem?
the third problem is that when sitting at a red light in the cold at night, it has a tendency to stall, particularly exactly a tenth of a second before the light turns green (it's watching me I know it), but it runs fine in the day time when it's comparatively warm. I assume this means I need to adjust my carb a little but in which way, and how much, and should I just deal with it until it gets warm in like a week or two?
'96 SA50P with a number of not so odd things
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- Wheelman-111
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Re: '96 SA50P with a number of not so odd things
Greetings:
The nut is a standard, Righty-Tighty thread. CCW to remove.
Use THIS to hold the tooth-ed outer pulley, a snug-fitting box-end 17mm wrench or socket, and a good strong arm. That nut will surrender.
Hammering a stuck nut with a rattle gun... Yes, Preacher Wheelman is back Dawgs!... will put your crankshaft in harm's way. So will smacking it back on. Don't do it.
The shaking may be a belt, variator and/or clutch issue. You'll know more once you dismantle.
Your SA50 carb may be dirty, or perhaps jetted incorrectly for your application. Be advised that your "P"-model pump doesn't produce as much oil per RPM as the SA50 Elite SR model. Consider locating an SR pump or run 32:1 Premix and re-jet to optimal.
Nice job explaining your new ride, and welcome.
The nut is a standard, Righty-Tighty thread. CCW to remove.
Use THIS to hold the tooth-ed outer pulley, a snug-fitting box-end 17mm wrench or socket, and a good strong arm. That nut will surrender.
Hammering a stuck nut with a rattle gun... Yes, Preacher Wheelman is back Dawgs!... will put your crankshaft in harm's way. So will smacking it back on. Don't do it.
The shaking may be a belt, variator and/or clutch issue. You'll know more once you dismantle.
Your SA50 carb may be dirty, or perhaps jetted incorrectly for your application. Be advised that your "P"-model pump doesn't produce as much oil per RPM as the SA50 Elite SR model. Consider locating an SR pump or run 32:1 Premix and re-jet to optimal.
Nice job explaining your new ride, and welcome.
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
Re: '96 SA50P with a number of not so odd things
how is an impact wrench any different then hitting a wrench with a hammer?
Let's assume I don't have that tool, and pretend I don't have any way to get it, what's the next best thing that I might have or might be able to improvise
I should feel stupid for believing a new carb was by default a clean carb shouldn't I, anyways, if I recall don't they have 'pretty much' the same oil pump, only the SA has a split throttle cable that actuates the oil pump to inject more at high throttle/RPM? Mine does have the receiver for the oil half of the SA cable, and if I pull it the exhaust gets really blue and eventually it tries to stall (at idle, after like two minutes)
Let's assume I don't have that tool, and pretend I don't have any way to get it, what's the next best thing that I might have or might be able to improvise
I should feel stupid for believing a new carb was by default a clean carb shouldn't I, anyways, if I recall don't they have 'pretty much' the same oil pump, only the SA has a split throttle cable that actuates the oil pump to inject more at high throttle/RPM? Mine does have the receiver for the oil half of the SA cable, and if I pull it the exhaust gets really blue and eventually it tries to stall (at idle, after like two minutes)
- Wheelman-111
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- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:09 pm
- Location: Deepinnaharta, Texas
Re: '96 SA50P with a number of not so odd things
Greetings:
Some have posted success using a cheap strap wrench wrapped around the outer tooth-ed pulley. Others have crafted a bracket that bolts to the cover holes and jams the outer toothed pulley. Harbor Freight has that affordable chain holder tool I still use for the clutch bell.
The difference in using a holder of any sort is that you're isolating the rotating forces to that Variator-side segment of the crank. An impact wrench without immobilizing the near-side crank leg relies on piston compression via the connecting rod and/or inertia of the flywheel on the other end of the crank as the "fulcrum" for its pounding rotation.
The crank is a pair of discs and three short shafts all press-fit together. It's tight, but not infinitely so. In fact a crankshaft is trued by whacking it just right. Uncontrolled rattle-gun hammering forces from one end across the entire length of the crankshaft can throw the stack out of true. Neither the electric starter nor a non-detonating combustion process produce the kind of vibration that can cause the press-fit joints to rotate.
The service manual specifies a bunch of Honda-san-blessed holder tools. If it didn't matter, the Manual would say "Whack that sucker off with an Impact Gun". Might be a reason...
Some have posted success using a cheap strap wrench wrapped around the outer tooth-ed pulley. Others have crafted a bracket that bolts to the cover holes and jams the outer toothed pulley. Harbor Freight has that affordable chain holder tool I still use for the clutch bell.
The difference in using a holder of any sort is that you're isolating the rotating forces to that Variator-side segment of the crank. An impact wrench without immobilizing the near-side crank leg relies on piston compression via the connecting rod and/or inertia of the flywheel on the other end of the crank as the "fulcrum" for its pounding rotation.
The crank is a pair of discs and three short shafts all press-fit together. It's tight, but not infinitely so. In fact a crankshaft is trued by whacking it just right. Uncontrolled rattle-gun hammering forces from one end across the entire length of the crankshaft can throw the stack out of true. Neither the electric starter nor a non-detonating combustion process produce the kind of vibration that can cause the press-fit joints to rotate.
The service manual specifies a bunch of Honda-san-blessed holder tools. If it didn't matter, the Manual would say "Whack that sucker off with an Impact Gun". Might be a reason...
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
Re: '96 SA50P with a number of not so odd things
Honda-san needs more money through special tool sales!Wheelman-111 wrote: Might be a reason...
In 2040 they say we're going away
We could never let them control
Hawaiian man, take back your hawaiian land
We could never let them control
Hawaiian man, take back your hawaiian land
Re: '96 SA50P with a number of not so odd things
So an impact wrench is fine, the problem is that I'm not securing the crankshaft at all?
btw, the honda manual says to use that tool to hold onto the alternater
btw, the honda manual says to use that tool to hold onto the alternater
- Wheelman-111
- Moderator

- Posts: 10683
- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:09 pm
- Location: Deepinnaharta, Texas
Re: '96 SA50P with a number of not so odd things
Greetings:
Yes, the Honda-sanctified method is to hold the other end of the crank. The difference between a steady hand on a long handle and the Rat-a-tat-tat of an impact gun is what matters, methinks.
Yes, the Honda-sanctified method is to hold the other end of the crank. The difference between a steady hand on a long handle and the Rat-a-tat-tat of an impact gun is what matters, methinks.
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
Re: '96 SA50P with a number of not so odd things
So I remembered the other two things
When I make any sort of sharp right hand turn, such as those I make almost any time I turn right, the kickstand scrapes on the ground, this seems bad to me, and since I'm not making all that sharp turns (90 degrees turning onto other roads in residential areas at maybe 15mph) it doesn't seem right. Another thing I've noticed is that in some of the less unbroken road sections I go over every day I can hear the kickstand banging around, which kinda suggests the spring isn't doing as good a job as it should holding the stand up (these are still residential roads so I'm never over 30, and it's at a turn so I'm more like 15 anyways). All this suggests the spring has somehow become warn out, which might be related to the 14 years straight it spent on that kickstand, out of it's 14 year lifespan, so it's hanging below where it should be by enough to bang around and scrape on the road when I turn. How wrong am I?
The fuel meter is very very wrong.
Somewhere in the neighborhood of this wrong

is it as simple as taking the float (I assume there's a float) out and bending the rod it's on down?
When I make any sort of sharp right hand turn, such as those I make almost any time I turn right, the kickstand scrapes on the ground, this seems bad to me, and since I'm not making all that sharp turns (90 degrees turning onto other roads in residential areas at maybe 15mph) it doesn't seem right. Another thing I've noticed is that in some of the less unbroken road sections I go over every day I can hear the kickstand banging around, which kinda suggests the spring isn't doing as good a job as it should holding the stand up (these are still residential roads so I'm never over 30, and it's at a turn so I'm more like 15 anyways). All this suggests the spring has somehow become warn out, which might be related to the 14 years straight it spent on that kickstand, out of it's 14 year lifespan, so it's hanging below where it should be by enough to bang around and scrape on the road when I turn. How wrong am I?
The fuel meter is very very wrong.
Somewhere in the neighborhood of this wrong

is it as simple as taking the float (I assume there's a float) out and bending the rod it's on down?
Re: '96 SA50P with a number of not so odd things
Ok so forget all that. This morning I started up the moped, and it jingled, Unfortunately I had exactly enough time to get to work on time so I had to just go. When I got home I took off the transmission covers and found... drumroll
five out of six broken sections of some sort of metal tube, I believe it may have come out of where the kickstart used to be. I had to remove it on a similar day about a week ago when I had less time than necessary to get to work and the engine just jammed when I started it; I thought I had gotten all of it's parts, apparently I was wrong.
Unfortunately, this was not the bell jingling my jangles.
The 'pinion' of the starter motor is not staying retracted anymore, so it's hitting against the teeth of that big gear at mid-throttle or when I turn left.
How can I fix this without spending an assload of money on a new one?!
Does one of you live near rochester hills and might be willing to help me not f*** this thing up anymore!?
five out of six broken sections of some sort of metal tube, I believe it may have come out of where the kickstart used to be. I had to remove it on a similar day about a week ago when I had less time than necessary to get to work and the engine just jammed when I started it; I thought I had gotten all of it's parts, apparently I was wrong.
Unfortunately, this was not the bell jingling my jangles.
The 'pinion' of the starter motor is not staying retracted anymore, so it's hitting against the teeth of that big gear at mid-throttle or when I turn left.
How can I fix this without spending an assload of money on a new one?!
Does one of you live near rochester hills and might be willing to help me not f*** this thing up anymore!?

