What is the deal with this thing?

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Kikwear
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What is the deal with this thing?

Post by Kikwear »

OK...got it all back together.

1. Won't idle. I have to hold the gas a little to get it to idle. If I let it go, it dies. Seated and then 1-7/8 out. Still won't on it's own. Idle speed and air screw make no difference. Have inline filter, is full and appears to be getting gas from petcock.

2. Can't get up to speed. On center stand, rear wheel doesn't start moving until I practically have full throttle applied. On ground with full throttle, I have to push a little to get going. I will reach around 25ish after a while but will not move on it's own power from a stop with me on it. Did do pulley mod.
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Tippmann98
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Post by Tippmann98 »

Sounds exactly like too big or too small of a jet. Take apart the carb and look on the jet to see what size it is. I think you may have a bigger one, but i have seen some of the same symptoms in a smaller jet. Try messing with the air. Usually if it wants minimal air, its a smaller jet (this can still work out well, plug some hoels). If it is Starving for air, it is a bigger jet. You will have to modify things if you want to keep this. See what the jetsize is first and post that.

-tippmann98
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noiseguy
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Post by noiseguy »

Well, I know it's not the pulley mod :D

Problem one sounds like a blocked idle jet, and possibly problem 2. Also check your main jet size. I assume you have the air filter installed...
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Jerry
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Post by Jerry »

Don't even have to think twice on this one.....For the first, clean out the idle jet. If you crack the throttle and it runs, the idle jet is clogged.....NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

As for the second problem, start with checking the main jet size. Too large and you're running way too rich - no power. Too small and you're running way too lean...no power. Next, check compression. If it's ballpark, then the pulley mod is your problem. You aren't going to get a hundred horespower out of the engine and it may be just a lack of power for the gear ratio you're trying to get it to work at. If possible, change the pulleys back to original and try again. Bet you see a big difference.
Mods just don't seem to 'take' on these bikes.
Scoot safely
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noiseguy
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Post by noiseguy »

Jerry, the pulley mod won't affect idle, or cause a stumble. It's a very mild mod, it gets you a few MPH and it won't cause problems. Mine runs fine with it, and other than increasing top speed it didn't affect anything.
Reversing the mod would be easy, but a complete waste of time.
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Kikwear
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Post by Kikwear »

Where is the idle jet? The only jet I remember removing for cleaning was the main jet.

What is the stock main jet size number?

Messed up thing is when I put it all back together...for a while it idled on it's own and now it won't at all.

There is a * of smoke when it's on the centerstand and I have it cracked at WOT after it has been running for awhile.
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Shane4188
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Post by Shane4188 »

I would check the reed valve. That could possible be cracked.
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noiseguy
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Post by noiseguy »

Kikwear wrote:Where is the idle jet? The only jet I remember removing for cleaning was the main jet.
Go read the tech docs. The idle jet is not removable. You may need to clean it with a toothpick
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Jerry
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Post by Jerry »

Reed valve is good, I'm almost positive. I'm also NOT saying the pulley mod is what the problem is. Just stating that if everything else works 4.0, then the only thing left is the pulley mod.
Sorry for the confusion....
Scoot safely
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Kikwear
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Post by Kikwear »

Holy s*** it was the jet. Pulled the plug to do a compression test. It was so black and smelled of gas when the last time I ran it was Christmas. Compression checked out a little over mimimum. I got about 117. Manual lists 114 as minimum. Is this ok? I bought a freshly honed cylinder from Paul. Should I go oversize on the rings?

Took apart the carb and removed the main jet. 68. I remember someone in another post saying they were thinking of going to 68 and Jerry said you'll be disappointed. Could not be more right. When I got the scoot, the exhaust flange was busted. I figure someone maybe jumped the jet to keep it from leaning out. Ran great with a leak. Probably the case because when it's put together correctly, it runs like crap.

As for the idle jet, the top half of the carb is soaking in parts cleaner. I will try compressed air and carb cleaner again. I bet some sediment clogged the jet even when I put an inline filter in. Explains why it idled when I put it all back together and then a little later, wouldn't idle at all.

Jerry said in all his scoots, he runs a 65 main jet. Is that the general consensus? Do I get this part from my local Honda dealer?
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BluPhire
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Post by BluPhire »

114? that seems awefully high. Mine is around 100, but before my new top end, I had about 90 and it wouldn't even start.
I try to fix things with a hammer and wrench!
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Kikwear
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Post by Kikwear »

Page 3-9 of the Honda Service Manual says

Compression : 8.0 kg/cm2 (114 psi) Minimum

My gauge reading was right above the 8 kg/cm2 or about 117 psi.

Is this cutting it too close compression wise?
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BluPhire
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Post by BluPhire »

118 is the red line from what I've heard, how did you get you compression up so high? If you can find a way, i'd get it down to about 110 just to be safe. But hey, that's just me.
I try to fix things with a hammer and wrench!
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Post by BluPhire »

Disreguard what I said about how to get it highewr or lower, I just checked out the Manual and found out why. But IF I were you, I'd get that compression down to about 110 psi. Good luck on making your decision.
I try to fix things with a hammer and wrench!
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Kikwear
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Post by Kikwear »

Can I ask why you feel that the compression should be 110 psi when Honda (you know, the guys that made the thing :D ) recommend a minimum of 114 psi?

The cylinder is freshly honed, I cleaned the carbon off the piston head to an almost mirror shine and removed the carbon buildup from the cylinder head. New gaskets on cylinder/head and cylinder/block and torqued to spec. That's all I did.
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