Elite 50 (SE50P) locked up, starter???

[nightcruiser]

I am glad to report SUCCESS tonight with my Elite 50!!!

Got the motor back together, the kick start seemed to be working nicely, the motor turns over great without the plug.

Put the motor back on the bike, put a tiny amount of 32:1 premix in the clean gas tank, bled the line until fuel came out of the carb overflow. Put a couple drops of oil in the in the head and installed the plug. She turns over and seems to have plenty of compression!

The electric starter reley is still just clicking, I am guessing the relay contacts are melted up just like the starter was, gonna get a new relay to try. The starter turned over vigorously outside the motor, didn't budge or make a noise when installed, gotta be no juice getting to it....

I ran out of time to work on the bike, kicking seemed to be going well, so I put a "tiny" squirt of starting fluid in the carb and she fired up like magic! Ran very briefly, sounded very smooth and nice, LOTS of smoke....

That's all I got for now, had to call it quits for today, but I call that a huge success! I am going to have to learn how to adjust the oil pump, since that cable was pulled when the motor came off, and need to get that air filter before I really try to make her run. I might need to get a tighter vacuum line, I know it is solid at the tank but might be leaking at the carb and not letting fuel flow. I think just a little more work and I will have a running scooter. Hard to believe this thing hasn't run in at least 11 years, from jammed up to purring so nicely with really just a little work.....

The stuff that was inside the carb still has me freaked out!!!...

Thanks for all of your help here guys, I will probably try to tighten this project up this weekend, so stay tuned for more posting....

[Mystic]

awesome. the starter is probably toast sorry to say. ask Trafficjamz he may have an extra I got one from him a few weeks ago. if you hear a click from the relay generally that means it is working but that is just my opinion. I dont even use mine it starts on the first kick then again i have the sa50 soooo. at any rate I knew it wouldnt take much to get her going these things were built solid

[swimmingfree]

i new you wood
swimmingfree

[dun rite]

if the starter worked on the bench then it should work or at least try to on the bike. maybe test the starter wire with a meter when engaging start button, see if you have voltage coming from the relay.

[nightcruiser]

if the starter worked on the bench then it should work or at least try to on the bike. maybe test the starter wire with a meter when engaging start button, see if you have voltage coming from the relay.

I thought the same, and after I saw how burnt and siezed up the starter was inside I know the contacts on the relay have taken a serious beating. Relays can click all day but if the high current contacts are burned inside no current is gonna flow. The starter did turn on the bench, I just didnt have any time to test the voltage or wiring on the bike at all today, I was lucky to get the carb cleaned and the whole thing back together and fired up.
I am super happy with my progress so far, I hope this weekend I can work on it a bit more and get her running well enough to take a ride! Since I took the crankcase off and cleaned and lubed all the kickstart parts the bike kicks over real nice, not like before when it was impossible to kick, so kicking it a bit isnt that big a deal. Although I still do have faith that the electric starter will work if voltage gets to it....
Thanks again to everyone who has helped me out here in the forum, you guys have been great!

[wentwest]

You're on the right track. On some Honda scooters all the power goes through the relay to start the engine and to recharge the battery, so the contacts are pretty important to continued operation. Don't know if that's true with your scoot, but just cleaning up all the connections and checking continuity as you go has solved a lot of electrical problems for me.

Two people can usually pick the scooter up and put it on a banquet table (the kind with folding legs you get for $30 or so). It's way easier to work on it when you are standing up.

[nightcruiser]

Got her running on her own fuel this afternoon, lots of smoke, but that is to be expected since I am burning 32:1 premix right now. I wanted to make sure she was getting lubricated well after sitting 10 years...
I have to feather the throttle to keep her running, I didnt expect it to run right without the air filter and this premix. The first start took a little shot of starting fluid, after that I could kick and get her started on her own, so things are looking really good for this scoot...
I think after I get an air filter and put some straight fuel in the tank she will be running right and ready for a test ride! Gonna get a new starter relay tonight (if I can find one locally) and hope that gets my electric starter rolling.
My bro-in-law is coming over next weekend to install a door in my garage and do a few home repairs for me (he's a construction guy), I am gonna surprise him and lay this scooter on him for helping me out. He's been eyeballin' it for years, but since it seemed siezed up I didn't give it to him cause I didn't want to give him a money pit. Now that I got it running I feel better about giving it to him. I know he will plate it right away and get it legal to ride on the street, I don't think I would do that, so by giving it to him I get to ride it a bit too, legally that is...
Thanks again to everyone that has helped me out here, don't think it's over though, I'm sure I will have quite a few more questions before I get this thing buttoned up and handed off....

[nightcruiser]

Picking up on this project a bit again today....
Got the STOCK Honda air filter and proper NGK plug installed today. She fires right up with one kick after sitting but doesnt idle, I have to feather the throttle to keep her running. She sounds smooth and nice!
I am gonna pull the carb and replace the two 0-rings (one on carb, other on that spacer) and see if maybe they are worn and causing air leaks that are messing up the idle. If that don't fix her up then I am going to need advice to tune her up and get her running right. (Actually, I NEED THE ADVICE NOW! LOL)
I am a bit worried about the oil pump. Since I pulled off the motor and all the oil lines etc, and actually pulled the oil pump out for a second I am worried it might not provide the proper steady oil the motor needs to prevent it from burning up. I am thinking to be safe I might just pull out the regular fuel and put some 32:1 premix back in the tank, then run the bike with the oil line pulled off so I can see the oil flow and bleed out any air. Does this sound reasonable? I sure don't want to burn her up after lucking out so far.....

[Mystic]

unless you have a bigger bore you really dont need 32:1 if you are worried about the engine seizing just tie the pump open with a zip tie also you can leave a small air bubble in the oil line leading to the intake to check to see if it is pumping, the bubble will move when running 32:1 you should change the main jet a few sizes, it is not a huge difference but with more oil the less gas it can pull. with the new air filter and spark and str8 gas in the tank and the oil pump tied open you should be fine on the stock bore. also just get a squirt bottle of some kind and pull the oil lines off and put oil into them then reconnect you shouldnt have to run it till it bleeds itself but i guess you could with premix in the tank

[nightcruiser]

unless you have a bigger bore you really dont need 32:1 if you are worried about the engine seizing just tie the pump open with a zip tie also you can leave a small air bubble in the oil line leading to the intake to check to see if it is pumping, the bubble will move when running 32:1 you should change the main jet a few sizes, it is not a huge difference but with more oil the less gas it can pull. with the new air filter and spark and str8 gas in the tank and the oil pump tied open you should be fine on the stock bore. also just get a squirt bottle of some kind and pull the oil lines off and put oil into them then reconnect you shouldnt have to run it till it bleeds itself but i guess you could with premix in the tank

I think you misunderstood me. I am thinking of just running 32:1 premix because this motor has sat more than 11 years without running, and I am not "sure" the oil pump is doing its job. To safely run the motor with the oil line disconnected I was going to run premix, so I can bleed the oil line and make sure the oil system is working. I dont plan to continue running premix, as soon as I know the oil pump is doing its job I will go back to straight fuel.

[swimmingfree]

yes Mystic go away lol
your doing fine and your right with the gas but the plug will go bad fast so if you leve home you may want to take a new one with you. on the carb thing it may work it self out or you may to idle it up . bet the help will be glad to get his gift from you ..hope you fond your time on here with us fun and helpful

swimmingfree
and the rest of the honda spree elite.net

[nightcruiser]

I tried to replace the o-rings tonight, after going to 3 auto parts store and not finding them I gave up. Only way I could find them was in a huge $15 kit, didnt want that many o-rings! LOL
While I had the carb apart I cleaned it one more time, wasn't dirty, but when removing the auto enrichment jet I noticed the O-ring there was missing. I got one to fit on there and it seals snugly, got it all back together and she runs "ok". Very smooth mind you, the faster the smoother, I can ALMOST get a good idle. Before I started her up I pulled the oil hose and pumped some oil down there. After I got her running I revv'd her a bit and then locked the oil pump wide open for a bit to make that oil flow. Opening up the oil made her want to choke and I ended up getting some good blue smoke going so I think the oil pump is primed and working ok.
I still have yet to ride it... I need to tighten up the rear brake and some stuff I took off when I pulled the motor, maybe tomorrow I will give her a ride.
One last thing, I want to check the oil in the trans and top it off, I am wondering what type of oil to put in there?

[dun rite]

I want to check the oil in the trans and top it off, I am wondering what type of oil to put in there?

10/40 motor oil. use a syringe if you have one. it makes it easy.

did you replace the o rings? or just the bystarter one?

[nightcruiser]

I want to check the oil in the trans and top it off, I am wondering what type of oil to put in there?

10/40 motor oil. use a syringe if you have one. it makes it easy.

did you replace the o rings? or just the bystarter one?

I couldnt find the O-rings, tried 3 auto parts stores... Now the examples are installed back on the carb.
I cant seem to get her to start from cold. A tiny bit of starting flued gets her to fire and once rolling I can kick start her up again when she dies... But from cold I can't get her to fire by kicking... So I need to do some kind of fixin'..... advise appreciated...

[nightcruiser]

I noticed today, after sitting all night, one good kick and she fired up and rev'd pretty high for a while. After she died I couldnt get her to kick start again. It seems that I need to wait a while after the motor stops if I want her to start. Even after I have had her running a while and warmed up, if she stalls and I kick right away she will not start, if I wait about 10-15 seconds and then kick she usually starts.
I am not exactly sure where to go from here to try and make her start and idle more reliably, I figured I would post about the behavior and maybe someone would have a tip that might help me out???