Spree carb issues/questions

[DickB]

I just got an 87 Spree that has been sitting for a number of years and has the expected issues especially carb. I have drained the gas and replaced with fresh, connected a fresh battery, and dismantled and cleaned the carb. Spark looks very good. Plug was dirty; I cleaned it a bit but I will get a new one when I can. The engine starts running with a squirt of stater fluid, but runs for only a few seconds. After fooling with it for a while, it would often start on its own (no starter fluid), but still quit after a few seconds. Seemed like it was not getting enough fuel. I then found that I could keep it running if I partially - almost completely- blocked the carb intake with my fingers. I got to the point where it would run at open throttle for a few seconds, but bog down and die unless I closed off the intake with my fingers again.

I checked the auto bystarter per the manual and it failed the second test with 12V applied. It got hot, but there was no restriction in the circuit with vacuum applied to either end of the fuel/air circuit. So that means with the engine warm I will be getting too much fuel, correct? I will replace that, but it seems that I actually have the opposite problem of not getting enough fuel.

One question came up as I was working with the carb. From the underside of the carb there is a smaller pickup tube next to the main jet which looks to be part of the air screw circuit. Looking down from the top of the carb there is a small hole next to the main jet which appears to be over the smaller pickup tube. The small pickup tube is completely blocked - I checked with a Mighty Vac. Am I correct in assuming that the tiny hole on top and smaller pickup tube on the bottom should be connected, and I should be able to see light through them? Is this the root of my issue?

I haven't checked the reeds yet; will do that tomorrow.

[Bear45-70]

NO STARTER FLUID IN A 2 STROKE! The stuff damages the engine.

Clean the carb per the instructions in Wikispreedia.

If the bystarter is bad, then there is your not continuing to run issue along with your carb needing cleaning.

Your Spree will not want to run without a complete and properly air filter.

Clan your carb.

It is not your reeds.

[DickB]

Thanks! Hmmm, the air filter was so caked with dirt I left it out. I will clean it and try again with it properly installed. I will get the bystarter replaced.

Still curious if I can get confirmation on the passage that I think is blocked. I will soak that passage it in carb cleaner overnight.

[Bear45-70]

Thanks! Hmmm, the air filter was so caked with dirt I left it out. I will clean it and try again with it properly installed. I will get the bystarter replaced.

Still curious if I can get confirmation on the passage that I think is blocked. I will soak that passage it in carb cleaner overnight.

That is the fuel feed to the idle circuit. No wonder you engine will not run.

[DickB]

Thought so. Any tips on opening that passage?

[Bear45-70]

Soaking in carb cleaner.

[SuprasNsprees]

^^ +1

also a little compressed air goes a long way

[DickB]

Got it! I got at least a few drops of carb cleaner into the inverted pickup tube last night and let it sit overnight. This morning when I connected the Mighty Vac it would not hold a vacuum, but drew down to zero in a second or two. Before it was completely plugged and would hold a vacuum definitely.

Surprised there is no fuel filter on this bike. I will replace the fuel line.

I'm still not sure about the auto bystarter, but it does fail the test. It's not clear to me how that thing works, what with the spring between the body and the brass parts. I understand what it is supposed to do. I guess I'm wondering if it is the part itself or the seat in the carb that is preventing it from blocking the fuel circuit when heated up.

[swimmingfree]

when i clean a crab i use a glass jar with a lid thats big a nuff to put the carb in .. as i spray the carb cleaner i chace it in the jar i use hafe of the can so when i think is clean i soak the carb in the jar over night .. then i use the other hafe to clean it the next day ..
swimmingfree

[DickB]

swimmingfree, that sounds like a plan next time.

Bear45-70, thanks for the Wikispreedia tip - I hadn't found that before.

Well, I think I'm ready to replace the carb. I dismantled the auto bystarter and cleaned it a bit. Testing it off the carb, the cylinder did move about 3/16" from cold to warm, so I think it is working. Back on the carb, the vacuum test does show some resistance when hot, not huge, but definitely more than cold. So I'm guessing that's normal. I guess I was looking for more.

I need some warmer weather, which is coming tomorrow, so I can open the garage door and test without CO poisoning myself.

[Bear45-70]

A soaking gallon container of carb cleaner with basket is needed. Spray crap is useless except to confirm the passage is open AFTER cleaning.

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detai ... or+cleaner

And it is reusable.

[DickB]

I finally got it to start and stay running. I had missed cleaning the tiny hole in the well that surrounds the choke pickup tube in the bottom of the bowl, so I was probably not getting any fuel through the choke path. I was also able to see the elusive pilot circuit hole with a flashlight this time. I will definitely use a carb soaking basket next time.

Thanks for the help and tips. Waiting on tires and battery delivery next. Unseasonably warm weather this week is welcome! Got the big scooter out yesterday for the first time this season.

[swimmingfree]

glad to here you giot it running ..
by the way most of us have to clean the carb a fue times as well..
swimmingfree

[DickB]

I was able to run the engine a bit more today, in front of the garage - no tires yet. At first, it didn't want to run very well - idled up and down on its own, then died. I had to partially block the airbox intake a few times to keep it running. But I was able to get it warmed up and open the throttle for a bit. Lots of smoke! A lot like the first run of the spring after winterization. I imagine there was a lot of oil in the engine and probably the muffler. The most current registration was 2001, so I'm guessing it has not been run in a while. After 4-5 minutes, it started behaving much better - no visible smoke, and ran smoothly at idle.

The previous owner had lost the keys, but today I was able to get replacements made by the local dealer from the numbers on the key cylinder, for only $6.99 each, so I was happy about that.

[DickB]

Got a pair of new tires on and was able to run a few shakedown miles. It starts and idles fine, but will not stay running with any kind of throttle unless I block half of the airbox intake with duct tape. In that case, it runs and sounds great. No missing, loss of power, or backfiring. The filter is in good shape, cleaned and oiled. I used 90 gear oil per the manual, but didn't exactly 'soak' it as recommended - poured about an once of oil on it and squeezed repeatedly - look evenly distributed. Not enough oil? The airbox looks tight, the clamp on the carb intake is tight, and I torqued the carb attachment bolts. I believe the o-rings on the spacer and carb are both good. I think there is a way to check for air leaks with propane? Not sure what else to look for in this case. I did raise the throttle needle a notch, to no effect. I don't know what jet it has, but have no reason to suspect it is anything but stock.