hard to set idle/pilot issue

[jokim00]

I have an 86 spree with taz's 48mm bbk, 21mm carb, and his gears.
My compression is 100 psi.

I currently have an 88 main jet and 35 pilot jet installed.

I'm running 32:1

I am having idling issues where I cannot get the spree to idle. I would think I got it when it just sits there purring nicely but after I ride off for like 30 seconds around the corner and come back, I would put it on it's stand and it starts revving like crazy.
Not as high as when I actually pull on the throttle but it revs up.
Initially I thought, "Oh I should just unscrew the idle screw" but I can go to the point where I would remove the idle screw and it still revs.
So I thought it might be the air screw but with the idle screw out, the engine increases in revs as I turn CCW like past 2 turns.

The main jet is fine, it doesn't bog at wot and runs clean with no grogginess. The needle clip is set at 2nd from the top, so leaner.

Am I still running too rich? I can pull on the choke and it revs up so I'm guessing it's still rich.
Should I just change my fuel:oil to 40:1 or something?

I cannot set the idle for this for the life of me.

Thank you so much.

[abreen89]

did you do a plug chop???

[Bear45-70]

What does Taz recommend? It would seem he would be the best one to ask this of.

[Trafficjamz]

sounds like an air leak to me.

[jokim00]

ah yes bear i knew i should ask taz so that's what i've been doing for the past couple of months.

he helped me set the main right so i'm good on that but this is what he said after i sent him the latest email last night.
This is what I said:
"Dear taz,

I tried both the 38 and the 35 pilot jets but I cannot jet the idle for the life of me.
I feel like I set the air and idle screw but after I ride it, I would put it on its stand and it would rev up like crazy.
Does this mean it's still rich?

That's the biggest problem I have right now, the idle revving even when I don't give it gas.
I'm afraid I might go too lean but I have no idea what's going on.
Whenever it revs up, I would unscrew the idle screw to see if it's too tight but I would unscrew it all the way and nothing happens.
This is with the air screw one turn out.
If I unscrew the air screw more than one, it rises in RPM.

Should I just abandon the 32:1 mix and try another?
Please let me know what you think asap."

This is his response:
"I dont understand why when you put it on the kickstand the idle shoots up. Is the cable getting tension right? Is the cable being pulled when on the kick stand?? You need to check the cable.

taz"

Could it be the cable?
I mean, I had to lean out the main jet because the fuel:oil ratio was too rich. I kept bogging out at wot but now it's fixed.
The pilot is killing me...so irritating.
I will do a plug chop now since I can go wot.

[Bear45-70]

If the slide is not all the way closed or almost all the way closed you will have a b**** adjusting the idle. I agree with Taz it sounds like your throttle cable is too short or routed wrong to make it too short. Going onto the center stand drops the motor and if that revs the engine it is a cable issue.

[jokim00]

so you have never seen this as a symptom for richness?
i'm close to the smallest pilot jet available for the pwk carb and i was getting worried.
I don't think my oil mix is too rich either because the color isn't that dark. it's the o'reilly's brand.

how do I adjust the throttle cable? i'm using the throttle cable provided by taz.
i'll email him too.

-edit-
i also wanted to add that i had recently reinstalled my cylinder as well as the intake mani setup with new gaskets and gasket sealant
i don't think it's an air leak but how can an air leak in the intake cause this "fast idling"
i ran into this term while researching but i didn't know if this was what I was experiencing.

Also, could it maybe be that i'm running too lean on the pilot then?
according to this, http://scootrs.com/tech.cfm?tip=tunecarb#b
it says:
"A lean pilot jet setting will cause your engine to surge at very low RPMÔÇÖs, bog or cut-out when the throttle is opened quickly and have trouble idling down."
I mean i did the quick wot pull and back and it did die. is surging the same thing as the no pull revving that i'm experiencing?

[Bear45-70]

so you have never seen this as a symptom for richness?
i'm close to the smallest pilot jet available for the pwk carb and i was getting worried.
I don't think my oil mix is too rich either because the color isn't that dark. it's the o'reilly's brand.
Junk oil gets you problems.

how do I adjust the throttle cable? i'm using the throttle cable provided by taz.
i'll email him too.
I have not seen TAZ's cable but every one I have as at least on adjustment and a couple have 3.


-edit-
i also wanted to add that i had recently reinstalled my cylinder as well as the intake mani setup with new gaskets and gasket sealant
I've seen new gaskets get torn or screwed up many times. New is not a guarantee of anything except you spent money on it.
i don't think it's an air leak but how can an air leak in the intake cause this "fast idling" You have extra air getting in somewhere.
i ran into this term while researching but i didn't know if this was what I was experiencing.
You obviously have limited engine tuning experience. I've seen it at least 100 times.

Also, could it maybe be that i'm running too lean on the pilot then?
according to this, http://scootrs.com/tech.cfm?tip=tunecarb#b
it says:
"A lean pilot jet setting will cause your engine to surge at very low RPMÔÇÖs, bog or cut-out when the throttle is opened quickly and have trouble idling down."
I mean i did the quick wot pull and back and it did die. is surging the same thing as the no pull revving that i'm experiencing?
You need to learn how to do plug chops and to read plugs so you are not guessing at what the mixture is.

[jokim00]

haha you still didn't answer my question. all you did was point out my obvious lack of knowledge, which i am already aware of.

i will post it again.
how can extra air cause this fast idling?
is what i'm describing called fast idling, where the engine just revs without having the throttle pulled?

also, i've read at wikispreedia that the brand of oil doesn't matter too much. some people buy the top stuff but don't see a difference when using the cheaper stuff.

thanks bear (:

[Bear45-70]

haha you still didn't answer my question. all you did was point out my obvious lack of knowledge, which i am already aware of.

i will post it again.
how can extra air cause this fast idling? Extra air causes the engine to run faster. Don't believe me, go out to your car and pull the hose off the PCV and see what happens.
is what i'm describing called fast idling, where the engine just revs without having the throttle pulled? Fast idle if it stabilizes or run away RPM if the only way to stop the increase in RPM is to hit the kill switch. Either is cause by to much air going into the engine. This air can get in by a leak and any gasket or bu an inadvertent opening of the throttle valve cause by maladjustment, improper routing or too short a cable

also, i've read at wikispreedia that the brand of oil doesn't matter too much. some people buy the top stuff but don't see a difference when using the cheaper stuff. Don't believe everything you read. I've tore down numerous engine destroyed by cheap oil. Only use a manufacturer's oil, not necessarily Honda's but any manufacture.

thanks bear (:

[Trafficjamz]

look in the mouth of the carb and see if the slide is going all the way down.

[jokim00]

ok so i checked today and there is a leak on the head but that's an easy fix.
my compression is below 90 psi now.

i do not have a gasket at the cylinder and muffler connection but i never had one there and it worked fine. guess it caught up with me.

i'm going to check if the slide is the issue but i checked today as i was leaving the garage and i have a lot of free pull before i get some tension on my throttle handle.

maybe the cable is too short but i figure if there's some free play, i'm still good but i'll double check.
----
i also wanted to point out that after i think i set the idle, i would wait like 20 seconds and the spree just increases in rpm by itself.
this is fast idling right?

is there anything else other than vacuum leaks and the throttle cable that can cause this?

[jokim00]

there was an airleak in the head gasket as well as in the intake manifold, but i fixed those two.

i leaned the oil mixture in my new tank of gas from 32:1 to 40:1
my main jet is 88 and my pilot jet is a 35
i'm having the hardest time setting the pilot jet though.

the spree will now idle fine with no fast idling once its on the stand but after i ride it a bit and come to a full stop, i would give it a little bit of throttle and it bogs out like at 1/8 to 1/4 throttle.
does this mean it's still too rich at the pilot?

also, i have a question about plug chops. i read from a lot of sources that plug chops tell you what the condition of the bike is so that you can set the main. that's because you go at wot and turn off the bike.
but i was wondering if what you see in a plug chop tells you how to set the pilot as well. can you do plug chops to check the pilot's rich/lean condition?