SE50 with AF05E, what is the Cheapest path to 40mph?

[Mjh787s]

Hey Guys, 3rd post on the forum!

I have a 1987 Elite 50s, bought it for $300 and it leaks oil like a siv. I thought about plugging crankcase, but I really wanted to replace the oil pump and not premix. I have another AF05E on the way as I need the oil pump and the outer tranny cover as my kick start components are missing.

My little pink monster does about 31mph on flat land and I weigh 250lbs. However, she dogs down to about 15 up any kind of hill.

What is the cheapest path to 40mph and maybe 35 up a slight incline? I am using it to commute here in Tigard Oregon, and 30-35 mph is all that I need, but I need that consistently uphill as well.

There is a lot of information about BBKs, exhausts, intakes, reeds, carbs, variators, end gear ratios ETC, however, it is hard to tell what is needed for my specific needs (40mph and 35mph on a grade). I am not looking to build a monster, just to have some more umph to keep the cars behind me happy on a 35mph road when I go up a grade.

What do you guys think? Please limit input to my needs (40mph and 35mph on a grade) as I am not interested in all out monster builds. I know that info is out there, and I assure you that I have used Search.

I am mechanically inclined, withe plenty of tools. Limited space however, as I live in an apartment community.

[martynkim]

ruckus vari and 2k springs in the clutch will do the job

[Mjh787s]

I understand that that can increase top speed, will that let me do 35 up a grade?

[maddog]

its a myth, this pulley will not work, who is the idiot that started this rumor

[swimmingfree]

first off you need to do some testing like a compression test as well as a plug crop..
do you have a new plug in it???
is the expipe clean as well as the export???
your 31 is that gps or by the speedo and how fast do you get to 31????
what do your rollers look like???
do you have the manual form here ???
do you no how to work on these thing or cars???
swimmingfree

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Quoth Mjh787s:

I am mechanically inclined, withe plenty of tools. Limited space however, as I live in an apartment community.

Welcome. One of the endearing features of Honda-san's delightful lines of 50cc 'Smokers is that under the cover of darkness, you can carry the whole scooter single-handedly upstairs to work in the heated comfort of your boudoir.

A healthy, all-Stock SE/05 engine - the top-end and crank, intake system, carb and pipe - has the ability to approach if not exceed 40 MPH. The MadDog's profoundly wise counsel notwithstanding, the addition of a Ruckus variator, good belt and rollers, and a 90/90 x 10 rear tire are all that's required. The tricky part is making sure the power unit is in fact healthy. The compression test suggested is mandatory, and depending on mileage it might be a good idea to disassemble, inspect and decarbonize the head and exhaust port.Once the top end is off, you have to consider yourself to be in a Prime Upgrade Situation. That's because Honda-san charges about the same or more to put it back to 50ccs as RedEftPerformance an others get for a 65cc Malossi top end.

Without gearing up, the Malossi top end won't go a Whole Lot faster on top, but will get up to speed - and MAINTAIN speed uphill - a LOT better. All this without too much fuss with carbs and pipes. Think it over.

[Mjh787s]

Hey guys, thanks for the great replies. Where to start.

1) I have not done a compression test, I had not factored that in as it is running, but I can see from your reply that it is important, so I need to get a tester from Oreilly, or I might just scoot over there and do it in the lot. I will report back numbers.

2) I don't know how to inspect rollers, I will do a search for that, if someone can provide a link it would be appreciated.

3) I don't know how to do a plug chop, does this require ruining the plug? I will also do a search for that.

4) As far as how fast it gets up to speed, it is quick to 15-18 mph, then pretty darn slow up to 31ish

5) I am going off the speedometer for speed, so I will need to try GPS (safely somehow)

6) I need to fix the oil pump first, I need to call my contact back to get the oil pump, I am sure premix with stock carb configuration is not going to help assess things.

7) I am not experienced with scooters, I am very experienced with cars/trucks/etc. Scooters are new to me.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

1. Harbor Freight sells a pretty-good compression tester for under $20.
2. Rollers live in the variator under the left side belt cover. They wear into a flat-spotted shape and need replacement every so often. The gram weight determines engine RPM range, balanced by the force of the spring between the rear pulleys.
3. "Plug Chop" refers to running the engine wide open for a minute or two, then cutting ignition to inspect the plug color. This as you know can reveal the adequacy of the mixture the engine is breathing. Reading is a bit different on a 2-stroke, but black is rich and pale is lean as a rule.
4. Sounds a bit slow for your engine.
5. Most GPS devices have a feature that retains the fastest speed attained.
6. Premix with the pump removed is how many here run their scooters all the time. Premix with the pump running dry is a Very Bad Idea, as the pump itself can seize from lack of internal lubrication.
7. The term Plug Chop isn't exclusive to scooters. A very experienced auto mechanic will Google it to learn more.

[Mjh787s]

This is good stuff, looks like plug chop tomorrow. I remember a few carb car guys doing stuff like that. I have use wide and o2 sensors and standalone ems type stuff for cars, I hope I have not presented myself as a mechanic, I have a lot of experience with car work, engine rebuilds, turbos, standalone ems, and engine swaps, primarily oriented around the Toyota mr2 and mr2 spyder.

I have made sure to leave enough oil in the tank to not run dry, but it leaks like a Siv. I am starting to see an oil trail on the roads I drive on daily. Premix is temp, want to replace the oil pump to know exactly how she runs.

I will look at rollers Tomorrow too.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

The 174 PSI reading I got on Flash5's Malossi kit was on the very same HF gauge. Gosh, I hope that's not a falsely-low reading! There is a Pressure-release button on the head and there appears go be a check valve on the plug fitting. I did record a crazy-low pressure reading once, but that was using the adaptor fitting that came in the gauge kit. The o-ring threaded fitting on the hose fits straight away, so just don't use the adaptor. If you don't believe the HF Gauge, you can always compare with NAPA's.

What exactly is leaking on your pump oiling system? Running a pump or premix doesn't change engine tuning very much one way or t'other. "So I can see exactly how she runs?" Replacing the pump won't give better information. Plugging the pump socket removes the parasitic drag on power due to the pump drive gears. On a 5-horse engine the difference isn't trivial. Plugs are ten bucks or so. You MUST ditch the pump I'd you eventually go big-bore anyway. Run 40:1 with Honda parts, 32:1 with a big cylinder.

[swimmingfree]

heres a plug you cood try oil plug but ive have never try it
http://hondaspree.net/wiki/index.php5?t ... Pump_Plugs

heres some info on the ramp plate and Variator
http://hondaspree.net/wiki/index.php5?t ... erformance
and this
http://hondaspree.net/wiki/index.php5?t ... Inspection
swimmingfree

[Mjh787s]

This is starting to make a lot of sense. This forum rocks.

Step 1, I will be making my own oil plug tomorrow.

Step 2 , new rollers, new clutch center spring, new clutch springs.

Can you guys suggest roller weights, center spring, and clutch springs strengths? I weigh 250lbs. Please consider that I am planning on doing the 63cc bbk from vt sometime in the future.

Still need to do plug chop once oil plug is in.

[Mjh787s]

I am thinking 42g total weight roller as I am 250lbs
15% center spring.

Is my stock variator a good choice, or do I need to go with a Kelli?

[swimmingfree]

I am thinking 42g total weight roller as I am 250lbs what is stock??? what is in there now?????? go to low and you will not get top speed out of it
15% center spring.putting in a center spring is not that ezey as you think

Is my stock variator a good choice, or do I need to go with a Kelli?what ramp plate do you have in it now???

[swimmingfree]

you need to do a compression test first it will tell us how good the motor is ..if the compression is low you will not have the hp to get the speed you want .. but is the compression is good then you need to clean out the export of carbon http://hondaspree.net/wiki/index.php5?t ... bonization and may need to clean the expipe heres how to clean the pipe http://hondaspree.net/wiki/index.php5?t ... r_Cleaning

then open up the side cover and take off the Variator the back plate off and throw it away look at the rollers ...clean out the grease look what what ramplate you have one is better then the other there are two diffident ones you cood have?????
by doing this you may get some speed ..
new back tire a 90/90/10 will fit or a 3.5/10 but you may need to grin the case some to stop it from rubbing you will gain about 1/10 more speed so you shood be about 34 mph by not doing what we ask you to do it make it hard to help you ..
sorry if im being a a. s. s but we need info to help you out and we like to help you ...
swimmingfree

ps
here some thing to help as welll
http://hondaspree.net/wiki/index.php5?title=Main_Page