Is my spark plug in expected condition after 300 miles?

[Pancake Sauce]

Hello. My '86 spree has had a hard life but continuously demonstrates the loyalty of honda ingenuity. It has been acting up this season so I gave it a light tuneup. I attached a pic of the spark plug I pulled after about 300 miles. Any info on the expected vs actual condition of that plug would be much appreciated.

Here is the scoop. I noticed that my spree was losing some top end speed whereas it was usually 30 mph, but now 25 mph, as well as a loss in ability to climb a giant hill near my house (5 mph instead of usual 12-15). Another concerning issue I have with my spree is that it seems to wind up rpm's at WOT but then drops back and slows down. It was basically fighting for 27 mph for a second or 2 and then loses the battle and immediately drops back down in rpm and remains at 25 mph until its next attempt a few seconds later. Eventually, after about 10 minutes of driving the top speed wouldn't wind anymore and leveled out at 25 mph but my spree had some 'turbulence' that felt like 4-stroking? Rich?

So far I have:
-cleaned and oiled the air filter as I thought it was running rich from being dirty.
-Cleaned the carb which was still quite clean from my last carb cleaning, although it had some red deposits chilling at the bottom of the bowl.
-The plug that I just pulled out is fairly new with only 300 miles on it, but I replaced it with another brand new ngk bpr6hsa anyways (properly gapped).
-I checked the belt a couple weeks ago and it seems perfectly fine although last winter a nice pool of water leaked into the belt casing (gasket died before I bought spree) and might have damaged or affected something to do with the clutch.
-After making these changes (minus plug replacement), I had not seen much/any improvement on either climbing or top speed so I was still convinced that it was running rich. I moved the needle clip up to the top notch so that the needle sits lower in the jet hole. THIS HELPED the top end and gave it a powerband at mid range rpm. The top speed after warmup is about 28 mph now but it still does that winding for a good 10 minutes upon startup which still concerns me although the turbulence appears to have stopped after warmup.

What I haven't done yet but plan to do:
-Firstly I know for a fact that my fuel lines and filter are aged and need replaced. The filter has those red deposits chilling at the bottom of it and the lines are noticeably beginning to crack and harden. I tried to buy some today but the local store was sold out of lines. I will try a different store tomorrow and redo the lines/filter.
-I also plan to order a new set of clutch springs because I didn't replace them when I replaced the shoes (pads on old shoes were worn mostly off). I'm guessing that replacing these will greatly improve climbing and acceleration but I don't see how it will change top speed or winding issue.
-I will obviously clean up the clutch shoes and bell during the spring replacement.

Possibly relevant information:
-The spree now has 6,664 miles on the odometer.
-My oil sensor failed at one point and I had VERY VERY low oil in the reservoir when I finally realized that my spree was angry. I am not sure if any damage was done but it was slowing down before I noticed, then recovered after I filled the oil reservoir.
-Sometimes (maybe twice?) I have noticed my blinkers failed a tick or 2. This is over the course of over 2,600 miles.
-I have a parts '85 spree with a working (tested) motor that I could potentially swap (also 6k miles on odometer).
-My bystarter appears to function, although it is a chinese one recommended by people on this site. I have a spare '85 spree bystarter but I would need to splice the wires because the connector is different. Maybe I will buy a connector at the store tomorrow.
-I love my spree and don't you forget it!

Any input would be much appreciated. Especially if you can tell me about that plug photo I attached. If it was indeed running rich and that's why I got improved performance by going leaner then I would feel better. I know lean is unsafe so any tips would help. Also, is it safe to run a spree with the carb needle clip at the top notch (3 notches total, previously on middle notch)? To be honest, I have never felt so much mid powerband on this spree since I bought it and the top speed increased. I am confused Sorry for my wall of text.

[mmeadows]

black your rich
brown perfect
white your not aright

your picture looks white to me,

could be an air leak

[Pancake Sauce]

black your rich
brown perfect
white your not aright

your picture looks white to me,

could be an air leak

I understand that white is generally not alright during a plug chop but this plug wasn't chopped. It was simply pulled after about 300 miles. The white color you see all over is on top of the brown/black stuff. I'm not sure that white=bad applies here but I could be mistaken. I guess somebody else might chime in and help clear things up? Meanwhile, it can't hurt for me to look for an air leak.

[patthesoundguy]

That looks a little Grey, like a lot of ash kinda of thing. Generally you want to see a kind of cardboard to chocolate colour. It doesn't look lean white though. If it was crazy lean there would be no build up at all and just white porcelain there. I'd still check out all of the usual air leak points, like air box lid gasket, filter and air hose if you haven't already. It might be fine, the build up might be the type of oil you are using. Super lean would mean running hotter than normal and would likely burn off a lot of the junk. I would pop in a new plug and do a plug chop just to be on the safe side to have that info to really be sure how the motor is doing. It can't be doing that bad, you haven't had a seizure or melt down yet OK I just read through the whole post againand I have a little thought of something to have a look at. Your milage is really high, and if that's on the orig piston and rings, you are likely due for a top end refresh. I think you have what I like to call shiny bore syndrome. Its when the cylinder walls get really shiny. This means the oil has no place to live in between the piston, rings and cylinder walls causing all sorts of funky running from improper lubrication. You likely have trouble climbing the big hill after the motor warms up I bet, the longer the ride the more trouble with hills? My spree had shiny bore syndrome at around 4300 miles or it was starting to be really obvious there was an issue at that point. Pretty easy to look into, just pull the cylinder head off and have a look at the condition of the cylinder walls. that is a cylinder that needs some attention. It should look more like this

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[Pancake Sauce]

That looks a little Grey, like a lot of ash kinda of thing. Generally you want to see a kind of cardboard to chocolate colour. It doesn't look lean white though. If it was crazy lean there would be no build up at all and just white porcelain there. I'd still check out all of the usual air leak points, like air box lid gasket, filter and air hose if you haven't already. It might be fine, the build up might be the type of oil you are using. Super lean would mean running hotter than normal and would likely burn off a lot of the junk. I would pop in a new plug and do a plug chop just to be on the safe side to have that info to really be sure how the motor is doing. It can't be doing that bad, you haven't had a seizure or melt down yet

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It is a seizure or melt down that I am trying to avoid. By the way, the last 30 miles or so on that plug were ran with the needle in the lean position (top notch) so I would imagine some 'rich' gunk being burned off by the new temps. I just took it for a 10 minute WOT cruise with a brand new plug but its too late to pull the plug tonight so I will pull it in the morning when I check for air leaks. I will post a pic of the new plug and let people judge from that. During that 10 min WOT cruise my scooter started really going. Super good power at mid rpm and it even got up to 29 mph on flat land a few times. Now it seems to battle between 27 and 30 with the winding issue. I can feel when it kicks into 'power' mode because the rpm goes up and it feels strong and crisp with the ignition. Then it drops back down a couple seconds later to 27 mph a with slightly lower rpm. My god it probably is an air leak haha.

[paulpauly7]

I can feel when it kicks into 'power' mode

lol that cracked me up

[Pancake Sauce]

So here is the update. I pulled the plug this morning after the 10 min WOT ride and it was alarmingly clean. I will edit this post later and add 2 photos of the chop but I am currently in town.

I returned the jet needle to the center slot to be safe for now. I confirmed that there are no leaks in the airbox. Gasket is still there. The tube from the airbox to the carb is not weathered or cracking and is nice and secure to the carb body. However I did find air leaks in most of the fuel/oil/air lines and also I found an air leak where the muffler connects to the engine. Both of my gaskets are dead for that spot so I will be ordering a new one with the clutch springs.

I got all new fuel lines and filter which I will be installing in about 20 minutes. Also, while riding into town to get the fuel lines I noticed my moped running better than ever. It pulls even better at mid/high rpm like never before. It even has slightly better acceleration from a stop. It just feels more like a normal moped now, the top speed is always 29 and the winding in rpm for the first 10 minutes is gone.

It has a new problem while the bystarter warms up where it basically runs iratically for about 1 minute then everything is sweet. I will try to put the '85 bystarter on and see if that clears up the issue. I will keep you all posted of any changes.

EDIT: The chop photos are now added. Also put the new fuel line/filter on but realized that the air line from the petcock and the oil line need to be thinner. I will have to get those tomorrow and replace them. No change from the fuel line/filter replacement. The oil line still has some cracks and air line was already rigged because it was too big so I rigged it with a new line and clamped it at least a bit tighter than before. The old fuel filter felt more restricted than the new one.

[patthesoundguy]

The plug chop read is not near the tip. You need to look down in at the base of the porcelin there should be a ring of tan brown. If its all white fron top to bottom its super lean. You need prob 1/4 to half mile wot from a dead stop with brand new plug with motor already warmed up before putting the new plug in and then cut it while still wide open and roll to a stop.then read the plug. If its solid white after 10 min of wot then you still have a leak. Put a rag over all of the painted surfaces of the carb side of the motor and lighly spray carb cleaner around all of the point air can leak in on the air intake with engine at idle if the idlespeed drops when you spray a spot... its leaking there

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[Pancake Sauce]

i like my plugs a light mocha color. That thing looks terrible. How old what type of oil are you running? I had a guy bring me an aero he was running 10-30w...for years.

I drive my spree often enough that oil never really gets old but I always run cheap 10w 40 in mine. I'm poor and haven't really figured out a cheap solution for good oil. I buy the stuff that is like $2.75-$4.00 instead of the stuff that is $5.99+

[patthesoundguy]

i like my plugs a light mocha color. That thing looks terrible. How old what type of oil are you running? I had a guy bring me an aero he was running 10-30w...for years.

That aero running 10w30 must have smelled terrible running yikes. That is the one thing I will Not cheap out on is my oil for my scooters. Even when I was super broke I ran high end oil in my spree. The way I looked at it was, I could spend the money on the oil and keep the motor running with out having to have it fail and not be able to afford to fix it if it melted and I agree the mocca colour is the colour it should be after a bunch of riding.

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[Pancake Sauce]

The plug chop read is not near the tip. You need to look down in at the base of the porcelin there should be a ring of tan brown. If its all white fron top to bottom its super lean. You need prob 1/4 to half mile wot from a dead stop with brand new plug with motor already warmed up before putting the new plug in and then cut it while still wide open and roll to a stop.then read the plug. If its solid white after 10 min of wot then you still have a leak. Put a rag over all of the painted surfaces of the carb side of the motor and lighly spray carb cleaner around all of the point air can leak in on the air intake with engine at idle if the idlespeed drops when you spray a spot... its leaking there

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Oops! Well I guess I failed that plug chop horrendously. I will have to get my hands on a new plug and another can of carb cleaner because I ran out. Thanks for the tips.

[Pancake Sauce]

i like my plugs a light mocha color. That thing looks terrible. How old what type of oil are you running? I had a guy bring me an aero he was running 10-30w...for years.

That aero running 10w30 must have smelled terrible running yikes. That is the one thing I will Not cheap out on is my oil for my scooters. Even when I was super broke I ran high end oil in my spree. The way I looked at it was, I could spend the money on the oil and keep the motor running with out having to have it fail and not be able to afford to fix it if it melted and I agree the mocca colour is the colour it should be after a bunch of riding.

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Is there a good, common oil that will be at every walmart/kmart/meijer or a common enough place that one will be near me? Convenience is worth the extra cost but I would hate to have to order some super oil from somewhere or have to sniff it out of a haystack if you know what I mean.

[patthesoundguy]

The plug chop read is not near the tip. You need to look down in at the base of the porcelin there should be a ring of tan brown. If its all white fron top to bottom its super lean. You need prob 1/4 to half mile wot from a dead stop with brand new plug with motor already warmed up before putting the new plug in and then cut it while still wide open and roll to a stop.then read the plug. If its solid white after 10 min of wot then you still have a leak. Put a rag over all of the painted surfaces of the carb side of the motor and lighly spray carb cleaner around all of the point air can leak in on the air intake with engine at idle if the idlespeed drops when you spray a spot... its leaking there

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Oops! Well I guess I failed that plug chop horrendously. I will have to get my hands on a new plug and another can of carb cleaner because I ran out. Thanks for the tips.

Don't worry, I failed on my first attempt at plug chops too many years ago, because the guy who told me how to do them forgot to mention that I had to start with a new plug each chop. So there I was making wot runs trying to see the difference in a plug that was not going to change in colour. The bummer is you can't clean it and use it again for a plug chop. You can still use the plug just not for a plug chop. I guess if it was so lean that it was snow white it may work for another plug go possibly, but don't quote me on that.

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[Pancake Sauce]

Well, I simply can't figure it out. I did all that servicing and now for some reason I'm stuck at a 25 mph top speed again. I even baked the muffler in a fire today and cleaned the carb again. I'm not even sure what I did that took the 29mph and mid/high rpm powerband away. It has no leaks, new plug, cleaned/oiled airbox, all new air/fuel/oil lines, gunk free muffler, and a honda spree bystarter (from '85 spree) instead of the chinese one that was in there. Even with all that I noticed basically no change from before doing everything. The one time it did get much better was for unknown reasons and went away for unknown reasons. It just feels like it cant reach max rpm's even on the stand. The only time it feels like it can reach good rpm is on the stand with the airbox cap off with the sponge still in it but it bogs out if I try to ride it like that. Any help/suggestions? I am totally lost. I easily spent a good 40 hours on it in the past week to no avail.

[Pancake Sauce]

i like my plugs a light mocha color. That thing looks terrible. How old what type of oil are you running? I had a guy bring me an aero he was running 10-30w...for years.

I drive my spree often enough that oil never really gets old but I always run cheap 10w 40 in mine. I'm poor and haven't really figured out a cheap solution for good oil. I buy the stuff that is like $2.75-$4.00 instead of the stuff that is $5.99+

Um am I the only one who missed he is running motor oil in a two stroke? Dude you can't run engine oil in a two stroke. You need oil meant for injected two stroke motors. You can't be that cheap, * you might go through two quarts over an entire summer. Drain your oil, check compression and check back. Your wasting your time without doing a compression check and running the right oil. There is a good chance you ran the wrong oil, and scarred the cylinder walls.

Is this a troll or have I really been destroying my engine this whole time? I can't believe I became THAT guy! I never heard anything anywhere that said to use separate oils for the reservoir and gear case. Can you confirm what I need to use? 2-stroke motorcycle oil? I have literally driven 2,800 miles with 10w-40 in the reservoir and even the guy I bought it from was using the same stuff. -