turn signals not working

PimpinSpree · Post by **PimpinSpree** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:23 pm

its not the fuse, the tail light works fine.

Somehow the white wire my stator got shorted out. I changed that out, now my turn signals don't work.
I turn the turn signal switch, and the the little relay thing makes a clicking sound, but other than that nothing happens. Anyone have any idea what i should try, I been looking at the wiring diagram trying to track it down

PimpinSpree · Post by **PimpinSpree** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:41 pm

turn signal relay was the problem. It clicking doesn't mean it works

PimpinSpree · Post by **PimpinSpree** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:16 pm

i almost don't want to admit this, but i been having a ton of electrical problems and just couldn't figure it out.............

pay attention to the polarity when you hook your battery up

mousewheels · Post by **mousewheels** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:11 pm

PimpinSpree,

>> Pay attention to the polarity when you hook up the battery.

Yes, that's good advice, seems there is not built in protection.

Couple questions. I've been following and helping some members after a reversed battery. Seems it can cause several problems. Hopefully, you didn't see all the below.

A) Did that blow a fuse?
B) Wast the fuse get replaced by a larger one or bypassed for further testing?
C) Did you find the regulator was bad afterwards?
D) Melted wiring?
E) When your stator was bad, was the headlight also not working?

thanks

PimpinSpree · Post by **PimpinSpree** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:59 pm

i have more testing to do, im not sure of the damages yet. Hopefully i didn't screw up another stator

the fuse blew over and over and i couldn't figure it out. I was still baffled today, but today it didn't blow, But today i found i had a dead battery, its charging now. Im not sure about the regulator, i havn't tested it yet

i'll let you know the extent of it when i figure it out

mousewheels · Post by **mousewheels** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:26 pm

PimpinSpree,
Thanks very much for your help, and sorry for your troubles. If you find you need a regulator, I'd be happy to trade a good reg for your bad reg.

If your fuse blows again after charging and connecting the battery up,
unplug the regulator, and replace the fuse 'one more time'. Having the regulator unplugged will cause no further harm, just no battery charge, your headlight will work, if the stator is good.

PimpinSpree · Post by **PimpinSpree** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:14 pm

well i think i got everything working, with the exception of the turn signals, i have the relay byspassed, so when you turn them on its just a solid light.

What do you want bad regulators for?

mousewheels · Post by **mousewheels** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:50 pm

PimpinSpree,
I want to look at the failure mode if a regulator is killed by a reverse polarity battery connection. And once failed, is there a DC path from battery though the stator. Might that path burn out the stator coil? I would include the information gained in explanations and things to check to others.

But even better is that you have your problems fixed and your regulator and replaced stator is fine.

---
Added --- Here's some past topics related to backwards batteries, smoke and charge system failures
http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB2/viewto ... ed+battery

http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB2/viewto ... ires+smoke

PimpinSpree · Post by **PimpinSpree** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:52 am

id trade you a smoked regulator for a turn signal relay. I replaced that yesterday, and the new one burned up too, and i don't have any more

it deffinitly did smoke my regulator, but i had an extra

stuff that went bad:
fuse
regulator
stator
headlight
turn signal relay
dead battery

no wiring melted, because i didn't bypass the fuse

mousewheels · Post by **mousewheels** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:09 am

PimpinSpree,
PM sent - Sure I'd be happy to trade a flasher for your bad reg.

To rest following the thread:
Reversed polarity battery connection can take out the fuse, regulator and even the stator. Be careful when replacing your battery and jump starting, the cost of a mistake is more expensive than a double check.

When buying a used scooter, beware of a blown fuse, they really should not blow. Try replacing it and if it blows again, expect that there are other problems, which could be a regulator and stator. Factor that into your offer.
Look for melted wires around the battery and regulator, a possible sign of bypassing the fuse.

I'll post a follow up after receiving the regulator, thanks to PimpinSpree for giving feedback on failures after a reversed battery connection.

mousewheels · Post by **mousewheels** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:05 pm

Update --
PimpinSpree sent me the bad regulator, and I made some measurements, It's clearly bad, and as measured, it would account for at least a discharged battery - even with the ignition switch off. I marked resistances measured on the schematic below.

In the failed regulator, there is a current path from battery to gnd and battery through the stator coil to gnd. Resistances are low enough to discharge the battery in a few hours. That confirms cause of a dead battery in earlier post by PimpinSpree

the fuse blew over and over and i couldn't figure it out. I was still baffled today, but today it didn't blow, But today i found i had a dead battery, its charging now. Im not sure about the regulator, i havn't tested it yet

Next - an attempt to de-pot the regulator was made. But turns out the regulator is potted with two different compounds. The top is silicone rubber like, which removed fine with paint and epoxy remover. But the lower layer, would not even soften. Guess it's not epoxy! I tried a heat gun to soften it but gave up after 10 or so minutes...

Anyone got advice for what to try next to de-pot this part?

The pic below shows what's under the first layer of potting compound. There was a burnt spot in the lower potting compound (circled in magenta), presumably a failed component is under that area.

vinnie · Post by **vinnie** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:51 pm

Relays are normally pretty easy to fix.

Take it to bits (take it out of its black plastic cover) and then hook it back up. You will see a capacitor (like this http://tinyurl.com/6fgumk) make sure it doesn't look swollen or anything.

Spray it all with electrical cleaner or WD-40. I used WD-40 on my relay and it fixed it.

If the capacitor looks swollen or has stuff coming out (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/155/4063 ... 1172722009), head to a electronics shop and ask if they have the same type of capacitor. Replace it, and your relay will probably work again.

Post by **noiseguy** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:56 am

This is interesting. I've always thought that you could probably replace the regulator with an off-the-shelf part of some sort.

That 50 ohms to ground would definitely take out the battery. I've no idea how one de-pots the rest. What would be more interesting is how to build a regulator from scratch. I'm betting what you find inside is a large retifier, either as a discrete component or a series of large diodes. If it's diodes one is probably blown. To that will be attached a regulator to pull voltage down to 13.8V.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectifier

mousewheels · Post by **mousewheels** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:33 pm

This is interesting. I've always thought that you could probably replace the regulator with an off-the-shelf part of some sort.

Yes, I've been thinking the same. There's a couple goals to getting the Honda part depotted.
1) Get a look at the rectifier, I think they use only a single diode. That would explain how folks can burn up a stator with a backwards battery. A bridge would protect the stator even if the regulator section shorted.

2) There's an extra input to the regulator beyond what is needed to charge the battery - the Headlight coil. I'm thinking there's a separate voltage limiter to clamp the peak volts. So if the headlight is burnt out, it won't cause the volts to rise so much it takes out the bitty instrument lights.

Post by **noiseguy** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:05 pm

I agree that the 4th leg is there to clamp voltage, but I think it's to keep the headlight voltage around 13.8 V (or whatever, may be lower).

If I'm right, it would add supplemental power at idle when the generator is not producing enough voltage. This would also keep you from burning out the headlight when you wind up the engine.