Dio Gears in a SE50?

PimpinSpree · Post by **PimpinSpree** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:50 pm

DorkoElite303 wrote:
This is what I kinda figured. Just buy all the new dio gears. I wanted to try it out on a SE50. But can't find one any where. If i were you, I would have gone with the 9:1. Even with that 65cc kit...I don't think you will get the most out of the gears. I think 9:1 would have let you use all your power band, from the lows to the top end.

Post pictures as soon at possible.

i had asked people on the board and 8.4 was what i was told to go with. We'll see what happens with the bore kit. its a 33% increase in displacement and a 45% decrease in gearing. so you may be right

oh, and i didn't do any machining and i didn't have any problems

DorkoElite303 · Post by **DorkoElite303** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:12 pm

Did you take out the washer? How does the scooter run now???

chevyguyjay · Post by **chevyguyjay** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:51 pm

please show pics.....i dont c how?

PimpinSpree · Post by **PimpinSpree** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:54 pm

um, i can tell you it deffinitly is longer, just like your pics show. Everything was just like yours. THere was a little red washer on the old countergear, but i didn't use it on the new one. I couldn't find any metal washer that everyone keeps talkin about, unless maybe i lost it, and didn't know it, but its deffinitly not in there. i didn't use any of the se50 gears, they were all ordered using dio parts numbers. i'll post pics later tonight

da808fokai · Post by **da808fokai** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:20 pm

Got the gear machined today. Im going down to my garage to put it all back together. I will take more pics for everyone. I also asked the machine shop to measure the amount I had cut, but they didnt do that for me. It's easy to explain the amount needed to be machined. I will follow up with a detailed post tonight or tomorrow.

da808fokai · Post by **da808fokai** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:22 am

OK, Im going to try and explain this is the best way possibly without causing confusion. So far as I understand there are 2 different methods to doing this.

Method 1: chevyguyjay's way. This is where you take a dio axle (Part 7), and press the new dio gears (whatever gear ratio you wish) pressed onto it. Have the countergear (part 5) slines cut down to be able to have the other dio gear (Part 6) pressed onto it. Use the stock se50 rear pulley shaft (Part 4)
http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/ab4cbeaa7f.jpg

Method 2:
Refering to this diagram that was posted.
http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/8650/untilk9.png

As PimpinSpree mentioned before you need:

"1. you need the long shaft with gear on it, at the very bottom of the picture. this picture shows that its the same, but its not exactly the same, and you need a post '93 once
2. the gear all by itself in the bottom of the box that says 93-up
3. the gear/shaft at the top of the box that says 93-up."

Im using method 2.
To get into a bit more detail I will post pics along with captions on what needs to be done. This is not final, as I still have to machine one more thing to install it.

http://gallery.me.com/vhjohnson/100024/IMG_5932/web.jpg
All my parts for gear changes on both my bikes.
Top: Rear pulley shaft from 94+ Dio and Counter 9:1 gear.
Middle: Rear axle shaft with 94+ New Dio 9:1 gear pressed on.
Bottom: 7.4 Malossi gears for my big bore 86' Aero (direct press on replacement)

http://gallery.me.com/vhjohnson/100024/IMG_5933/web.jpg
Pic of the Axle gear and counter gear installed (not yet machined).

http://gallery.me.com/vhjohnson/100024/IMG_5935/web.jpg
As you can see the height differences between the two gears.
Stock gear on the left (shorter), longer dio counter gear on the right.

http://gallery.me.com/vhjohnson/100024/ ... 6786580002
Another pic to show the difference in height.

Off to the machine shop:
Stock countershaft length: 1.180"
Aftermarket dio countershaft length: 1.285"
I had 0.105" taken off removed from the inner (spline side) of the dio counter gear.

http://gallery.me.com/vhjohnson/100024/IMG_5937/web.jpg
After the 1st machine shop trip to make the heights equal. If this is not done, then the counter dio gear will have play between the case and gear, and the thrust washer will not sit properly (not good). lol..

http://gallery.me.com/vhjohnson/100024/IMG_5939/web.jpg
Thinking everything was set to go, I attempted to put it all back together and found that the case still does not fit properly. After examining closer, I found that the difference is shown in the next picture.

http://gallery.me.com/vhjohnson/100024/IMG_5940/web.jpg
As you can see, the two gears (stock on the right, dio on the left) should be flush against each other. The difference in space is identical to the difference that the case does not close by.

http://gallery.me.com/vhjohnson/100024/IMG_5941/web.jpg
Another picture to illustrate the height difference. Notice front the bottom going upwards along the shaft, where the thrust washer sits there is a height difference (width difference if looking at from an installation perspective).

So... Back to the machine shop tomorrow. Im hoping to have this done tomorrow because were going on a 90 mile ride on Sunday. I don't want to do this with stock gears.

I will edit my message tomorrow afternoon after all is set and done. Hopefully the machine shop can take that part of the shaft off, as it is much more difficult than just machining an end.

Hope this helps everyone. Please comment/critique as I want to clarify anything that is not clear.

More pics of the gear swap at:
http://gallery.me.com/vhjohnson#gallery

chevyguyjay · Post by **chevyguyjay** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:01 pm

nice pics man. i hope the gear swap works for u. i wish i would of got the gears u have. keep us posted.

PimpinSpree · Post by **PimpinSpree** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:14 pm

maybe the reason i got it to fit, was i didn't use either of the washers. And yes, there did seem to be a little play in the countergear. But i was thinking the case would hold it tight, maybe not though. hopefully i won't have any problems. but i went on a real cruise last night, and it was fine. i may have an oil leak, but i think thats just a chunk of the old gasket still stuck on there and i think i have that fixed now.

as for my pics, they aren't very interesting, nothing that hasn't already been shown, so i won't bother. Only thing that hasn't been shown is this one:

the stock one (right) has a fatter gear on it then the post 93 one (left).
http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/7924 ... earrn3.jpg

da808fokai · Post by **da808fokai** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:43 am

So I got all the gears installed on both my bikes.

Stock nb50: 9:1 gears (shown in my write up above) are making a whining sound above 15mph. Is this normal with brand new gears until they break in???

I stopped to check it out, and everything seems to be spinning normally. I also did not gain hardly any top end. Kinda disappointed on this one, but it is a stock bike... So that might explain it. I'll have to mess with it another day.

Big Bore nb50: 7:1 Malossi gears. I love it! Install was really easy and top end is great.

Im too tired to post pics and update my post. I will do that tomorrow night. Wish me luck on my 90mi cruise tomorrow on the big bore (Hope it doesn't blow!) LOL... I set it a tad richer, premixed a bit extra oil and put a br8 plug in.

Vance

PimpinSpree · Post by **PimpinSpree** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:51 am

so what did your top speed end up being on the bored 7:1????? is this the polini contessa 65cc kit?

and did the stock one, just feel underpowered, like the motor just doesn't have enough power to get into higher rpms??? cuz thats how mine is right now. I only gained a few mph on flat ground, but it sounds like instead of of 35mph at 9k rpms, its 37 mph at 5k and it just doesn't have power to rev any higher

da808fokai · Post by **da808fokai** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:57 am

Its way above the speedo, so I will have to have a friend pace me in a car or borrow a GPS from someone to find my max speed with the 7:1's. It has a 63cc polini kit in it I believe. I bought it with it already installed. I will let you know when I test it what the top speed is.

As far as the stock motor with 9:1 gears, I really couldn't hear if the motor was winding out or not because of the "wheeee" sound that its making. I'm sure its from the gears, but im not sure why. I've gotta get my calipers back from my friend so that I can take precise measurements to figure out what's out of whack. It certainly didn't feel as if it is at its max speed though.

I will keep everyone updated on my stock nb50 and narrowing down the "wheee" sound so that we can get this thread finalized.

Good fun, peace...

Vance

PimpinSpree · Post by **PimpinSpree** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:24 am

something is definitely not right with mine. I think the countergear has some play on it and its shifting around. When i take off it gives a little *, and then when i slow back down to an idle is starts * again. As if it shifts one way, and then is shifting back

I may end up machining it, but i'm gonna try some spacers (washers) tomorrow.

how much did you pay for the machining?

Elite-ist · Post by **Elite-ist** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:05 am

I just want to thank you bros again for working on the cutting edge of scoot modding!

Post by **noiseguy** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:58 pm

Just wanted to let you guys know that I think this is a great piece of work. Gear availability has long held back the performance potential of the older Elites, and you've pretty much blown that away with this. Hat's off to chevyguyjay and da808fokai for all the work on this.

This kind of stuff is exactly why I formed the board. Anyone can throw a bunch of aftermarket parts on a scoot; the real workmanship comes from getting it to work together, and/or creating the custom pieces (that you can't easily buy) and creating something few other have.

PimpinSpree · Post by **PimpinSpree** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:15 pm

well i put the red plastic washer in between the countergear and the bottom end, and it seemed to have solved my * problem, but i think it still needs to have a thicker spacer, maybe 2 of those washers. It seems to be making some noise. I also think jb welding the two gears together would solve things. parts 5 and 6 in this picuture
http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/ab4cbeaa7f.jpg

i think the problem is the gear isn't pressed onto it, and it has room to wiggle. Its making a chatter noise at idle

i really don't think machining the gears is necessary. It just lets you use the washers that the dio has in it.