What is the Final Drive?

gunner_21 · Post by **gunner_21** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:29 pm

I took my honda elite 1996 to the Honda Dealer today b/c it was making noises and the dealer said I had issues with my Final Drive. The cost to repair is 500.00. I don't have any oil leaks but the guy did add some crankshaft oil. Can someone explain to me what the "Final Drive" is and how it works? Thanks

DJPhatman · Post by **DJPhatman** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:20 pm

Get your scoot back from that dealer, and tell the GENERAL MANAGER that if they attempt to charge you for any repairs, that you will report them to the attorney general of your state, and every news outlet who will listen!

That said, the "final drive" that they refer to are the final reduction gears that transmit the power from the clutch to the rear wheel. There is no oil in the crankcase, only in the rear gear box. $500 to replace the gears and bearings is highway robbery!

What kind of noise do you hear? Can you pinpoint where the noise is coming from? Use a mechanic's stethoscope, a screwdriver, or even a paper towel core tube to isolate the noise.

PimpinSpree · Post by **PimpinSpree** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:43 pm

if thats the conclusion he came to, it sounds like its one of the two bearings in the transmission gearing

follow the how to on "how to install aftermarket gears"

then when you get in there, see if anything is making noise

hondaman · Post by **hondaman** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:46 pm

You have to realize your scooter is more than 10 years old. Most if not all Honda dealers will charge you an outrageous price for repairs hoping you will just go away. They want to sell you something new and really do not, or even know how, to work on older scooters. I am afraid you are going to have to figure this one out by yourself or by the help of others on this forum. Its either that or get ripped off by your friendly smiling Honda dealer.

Kenny_McCormic · Post by **Kenny_McCormic** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:05 pm

A complete idiot can wrench on a honda, Im sure your capable of tearing it down yourself.

eclypse · Post by **eclypse** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:51 pm

Heres the link to the service manual thats located in these forums.. http://hondaspree.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2677

Also.. you can get a real clear look at the parts and beable to order new parts "if needed" from here: http://www.cheapcycleparts.com/

Just click on buy OEm parts on the right and select Honda. Then from the new menu choose Motor Scooter, then select SA50 A 96 from the drop down menu near the bottom. From there you'll beable to select any area you want to look at.. I believe the final drive is the Transmission.. correct me if i'm wrong.

Yeah with help from all these guys and all the help docs, you'll be in good hands!

pat yourself on the back that you found this site!

mikehelms · Post by **mikehelms** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:13 pm

DJPhatman wrote:Get your scoot back from that dealer, and tell the GENERAL MANAGER that if they attempt to charge you for any repairs, that you will report them to the attorney general of your state, and every news outlet who will listen!

*? He brought his bike in and they gave him an estimate. What's wrong with that? And I can guarantee that the AG and the local news outlets won't give two flying hoots about a broken scooter; that's as newsworthy as my dog's breakfast.

$500 may seem exorbitant, but we haven't seen the bike and don't know what's actually wrong with it. I agree that $500 is excessive if it's simply a bad bearing, but the entire rear end could also be baked ... and I'll bet that could easily hit a few hundred dollars in parts alone - especially if one of the cases is damaged. (I'm thinking about my old Sportster that had a bad rear wheel bearing ... the bad bearing managed to spin in the hub and baffed the rear rim. What should have been a $20 repair cost me over $300 in parts alone ...)

I spin my own wrenches and there's a lot of times I'll happily get my hands dirty to save some money. But I've spun wrenches professionally too, and what seems like a ridiculous amount of money for a repair isn't always as unreasonable as it seems at first. And the infamous melodramatics at the dealership usually gets you nothing but an eyeroll and an even higher estimate to make sure you don't come back ...

-- Mike

'86 Honda Spree
'05 Ducati Monster S2R

mikehelms · Post by **mikehelms** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:23 pm

gunner_21 wrote:I took my honda elite 1996 to the Honda Dealer today b/c it was making noises and the dealer said I had issues with my Final Drive. The cost to repair is 500.00. I don't have any oil leaks but the guy did add some crankshaft oil. Can someone explain to me what the "Final Drive" is and how it works? Thanks

... and since nobody really answered your question, here's a concise summary of the final drive:

Your spree has a "one speed" transmission that's geared directly to the rear wheel. It's just a pair of gears that reduces the rotational speed of the driven axle, since the little 2 stroke engine in the Spree probably comes close to (if not exceeding) 10,000 RPM - and spinning the rear wheel that fast would probably put you into low Earth orbit (or it would stall the engine out).

The final drive is the one part of your Spree that is sealed with oil inside (the engine doesn't count, since oil that gets injected into the engine is constantly burned and ejected through the tailpipe). It's possible that the oil in your rear end leaked out, or got old, or whatever ... and there was damage done to the ball bearings and/or the gears. Or, the failure back there may not have had anything to do with a lubrication problem - it's impossible to tell without seeing the bike.

I took a look on cheapcycleparts.com and a new set of gears/axles for your final drive would be about $110. Bearings and seals would be about $60. If a case is cracked, the repair bill could easily double, not to mention labor ...

Did the dealer offer any information about what needed to be done, other than the idea that it's "broke"? Even if they had to replace every part that constitutes the rear end, they'd still have to tack on at least 2 hours of labor to get the bill up to $500 ... and as some of the others have already mentioned, this isn't a particularly complicated repair if you have any mechanical inclinations.

Cheers,
-- Mike

'86 Honda Spree
'05 Ducati Monster S2R

eclypse · Post by **eclypse** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:32 pm

Its an 96 Honda Elite SA50 Dio motor, not a Spree he has.

mikehelms · Post by **mikehelms** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:25 am

eclypse wrote:Its an 96 Honda Elite SA50 Dio motor, not a Spree he has.

That would explain the $500 estimate then ... Elite has a two speed tranny, right?

-- Mike

gunner_21 · Post by **gunner_21** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:37 am

Thank you for all the replies. I guess with the help of you people I will try to fix the problem. See, the mechanic never stripped the scooter down and told me exactly what the problem is. He started it up heard the noise and from experience told me the problem and then charged me $55.00 dollars . Which I have a problem with that but it was out of my control at that time.

What was weird was the electric start quit working a week prior to the problem and then when he added gear oil the electric start was working again. I wouldn't think they were associated but are they? Can there be any short or long term damage to the motor with this problem? Lastly, how hard is this problem to fix?

I'm not very mechanically inclined to be honest. However, I'm not afraid to try. In the past when I didn't know how to do something like brakes, ball joints I went to the library and got books so I could.

eclypse · Post by **eclypse** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:16 am

Heres a link from these forums on how to take apart the trans and change the gears.. Here you can atleast see how to take the area apart and get a good look at the area he said was messed up.

http://hondaspree.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4489

Kenny_McCormic · Post by **Kenny_McCormic** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:56 pm

mikehelms wrote:
eclypse wrote:Its an 96 Honda Elite SA50 Dio motor, not a Spree he has.
That would explain the $500 estimate then ... Elite has a two speed tranny, right?

-- Mike

No there was some express with a 2 speed, the elite has a infinite speed CVT trans.

mikehelms · Post by **mikehelms** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:38 am

Kenny_McCormic wrote:No there was some express with a 2 speed, the elite has a infinite speed CVT trans.

So the final drive in an Elite is similar to a Spree?

-- Mike

PimpinSpree · Post by **PimpinSpree** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:24 pm

pretty much. Although i was looking in my spree trans, and it has less gears. Its seems to only have 2 gears instead of 3. That aside, roughly the same. The big difference in the spree is it lacks a variator

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What is the Final Drive?

What is the Final Drive?

Re: What is the Final Drive?