Yet another Bogging/Hills Problem

superkoot · Post by **superkoot** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:40 pm

Just did a barn rescue on a '85 Spree. Was actually in better shape than I expected. After doing the basics (new battery, clean carb, plug, fuel lines, air filter) she started up like a champ.

I've looked though the forums on all the boggging and hills issues but the air screw aspect is what is getting me. She would idle then die when you gave it gas. However, if you screw the air mixture screw all the way it she will stay running. Runs ok (~20mph downhill) but always bogs on inclines. On an incline, if you let it rest for a second or two it will start to go then bog back down.

Possibe Steps to take:
Clean carb (again, and again)
Chop Plug?
Exhaust?

Any other suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks again!

scooterwerx · Post by **scooterwerx** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:45 pm

sounds like the pilot jet is still clogged if it still idles with the air screw all the way in....dip it or get it hot tanked!

Clivester · Post by **Clivester** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:17 pm

Also check for air leaks around the manifold and make sure the air filter is clean, oiled, and the air box properly sealed. Do you have the spring, washer and o-ring installed on the air screw?

Clive.

superkoot · Post by **superkoot** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:49 am

Thanks for the help,

I took the carb back out and cleaned it as well as I could. I tried really hard to make sure the pilot jet was clean as could be. I put it back together and it was actually running a bit better. Now I can go up small hills without it bogging too much.

When I get to a larger hill it will bog out like it did before. Do you think it could still be a carb issue? - Also, what exactally is dipping the carb?

It will run now with the air screw turned 1/2 rotation out but bogs much more than if I have the air screw all the way in. The air screw does not have a washer or O-ring, would that make a difference?

Thanks again for all the tips and I'm looking forward to getting the ole spree running like new

dgsoles · Post by **dgsoles** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:37 pm

Okay, not to start some crap here, but, when I received my carb-gasket kit from Honda a week ago, it did not come with an O-ring for the air-screw, just one for the drain screw. Also, my carb never had an O-ring for the air-screw on it, making me believe that Sprees may not have had those. Also, no washer, either. And mine is running excellent now. I had the same issue you did, I ended up holding a propane torch on my pilot jet tube for....about 3-5 seconds to help "loosen" up the varnish and carbon-crap in it, and then I let it soak in carb cleaner for about 30 minutes. There are 2 types of carb cleaner, the spray kind from an aerosol can, and the dip kind that comes in something resembling a paint bucket. The dip kind is usually much more powerful, but you need to read the ingredients and instructions very carefully, as some contain powerful corrosives (like lye) which will literally dissolve your carb in minutes. Make sure you can use the dip on aluminum and brass, and also take ALL (repeat: ALL) of your rubber off of your carb, as it won't be there when you take it out of the tank.

Then, when it's done soaking, blow through everything (including idle/pilot jet) with compressed air and some spray carb cleaner, and repeat as necessary (I only had to dip once).

After I did this, the bike stopped bogging and cutting out, but would still feel like it would lose power in the mid-RPMs, also it was VERY hard to start while cold. It turned out that I had a leak somewhere on my intake. I ended up buying a new carb-gasket kit (not expensive, actually), new intake gaskets (they go between intake manifold and reed valve, and between reed valve and crankcase), new O-rings (these went between the carb and insulator, and between insulator and intake manifold), and a new air filter.

Also, make sure your carb insulator is not installed upside down, as this is guaranteed to make your bike run like s***, as it's letting a lot of extra air in.

Wow, I love my long posts....

Wheelman-111 · Post by **Wheelman-111** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:20 pm

Greetings:

Solvents differ, but the paint-can carb dips are safe for MOST synthetic rubber seals. My vacuum petcock diaphragm survived a week in a bucket of the stuff and emerged with its diaphragm intact. Ditto for the float needle tip. Gaskets and o-rings are all synthetic nowadays, and dire warnings about them disappearing in tubs of carb dunk are unwarranted.

So from whence did the myths arise?

Consider 2 things:
1. Some very old carbs - I remember in my family we had outboards from the 50s and 60s - had cork gaskets and bits of natural rubber stuff in them. Those likely would not survive a dip..

2. EPA rules limiting the availability of some types of organic solvents - the good stuff is no longer sold.

Napa carb cleaner dissolves no metal. Soak in peace.

Arnadanoob · Post by **Arnadanoob** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:08 pm

You have a lean fuel issue. All of what you described points in that direction. I would suspect that the carb needs a serious cleaning, if you've cleaned it already once, you'll need to do it again better.

1. Remove airbox, filter and leave it open.

2. Inspect the connections between the carb and intake manifold, to the reed cage and where it mounts onto the block. Make sure all the bolts are nice and tight. If you have an air leak, no amount of carb tuning will fix your issue.

3. Restart the bike, see if you find any improvement, if not proceed to the next step.

4. Remove the carb making sure no rubber gaskets are going to be exposed to the carb cleaner and thoroughly reclean every part. Make sure to shoot generous amounts of cleaner into each of the brass tubes.

5. Once you're confident that you've cleaned the carb completely, reassemble and go back to step 3. If you see no improvement, proceed to step 6.

6. Get yourself a dipping product designed SAFE for carb useage Remove and disassemble your carb again but this time make sure you remove the float, and float pin as both contain plastic parts. You want to clean those parts using carb cleaner only and don't put them in the dipping bucket. Once you've removed all the rubber/plastic parts from your carb, dip and leave for 30min to 60min (depending on the instructions).

Then take the carb body out, spray down the carb with carb cleaner as you would during a normal cleaning and let dry. Reassemble carefully and retest.

superkoot · Post by **superkoot** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:16 pm

Thank you again for all the help. I'm excited and I'm planning to get to work on it this weekend. I did have a quick question; I looked at getting a bucket of carb dipping solution but I can only find them in very large containers (1+ Gallons). If I sprayed an entire can of regular carb cleaner into a glass and used that as a dip would it work as effectively?
Thanks again

Kenny_McCormic · Post by **Kenny_McCormic** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:49 pm

They dont come smaller than 3/4 gallon, you can use this stuff over and over.

Arnadanoob · Post by **Arnadanoob** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:37 am

Yeah, the buckets/pails don't cost a lot, they're about the size of a gallon can but there's about 75% of it in solvent. I have a parts washer that I've been using for 3 years now.

superkoot · Post by **superkoot** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:08 pm

Just wanted to say thanks for all the help!

I was able to dip my carb this weekend and let it soak for a few hours. After the air hose and letting it dry I put it back in. Bogging is much better and now I can even ride up hills!

I appreciate all the help and tips and I'm glad to have a nice little running spree!

Now.. to get some clothes so I don't freeze when riding it

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Yet another Bogging/Hills Problem

Yet another Bogging/Hills Problem

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