discussion

Dac · Post by **Dac** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:50 pm

First off it wasn't about whether there was a stroker kit available...

yes, yes you did.

Just look, you said a few times about a stroker kit.

...It was about the bogus info Burnt was putting out about "effective stroke" of which there is no such thing.

He was putting it in terms people can understand.
"effective stroke" makes perfect since to me. there is so much of a stroke, but he is using gaskets to not use the full stroke, so he was telling how much of the stroke he was using. If i had to word it myself i would also use the words "effective stroke". it makes perfect since.

This arguing with morons is getting old.

I think i speak for everyone when i say we all feel the same way.

They keep trying to drag me down to their level and beating me with experience! Rather that learn the right way,

"Our level" is scooter tuning. This is a scooter tuning site. We know what we are doing, Its you that dont want to learn. We are not doing anything wrong, and we are not giving in to low standers. We are doing it how it should be done.

they prefer to remain morons.

This line is almost ironic.

Bear, What we do is not half *, its scooter tuning. Feel free at any time to start tuning scooters yourself. I personally would love to see you build up an elite.
*, your so d*** good you should build up your spree.
You know motors. But you dont know scooters.
End of story.

burnt_toast · Post by **burnt_toast** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:53 pm

Bear45-70 wrote:The proper way is to either buy a stroker kit with all the right parts so that the port timing is where it needs to be with the new stroke. This will usually include a new piston and/or rod, a jug along with the stroker crank. This kind of thing takes more than just installing a stroker crank and stacking gaskets to keep the piston from hitting the head. Too many on here think that horse power should be cheap because it's a scooter. It doesn't work that way. A two stroke's port timing is the same as a camshaft in a 4 stroke engine. The wrong cam and your engine is not gonna take advantage of the full potential of the mods you have done to your engine. Leave the stock cam in you 4 stroke engine and all the mods in the world will be wasted. Leave the stock jug on your modded 2 stroke and you might as well skip the mods all together. The best you will see are slight improvements.

Slight Improvements??

You've gotta be Sh**in me man..

My Elite stock performance: Top speed 35 MPH by Speedo

Modded performance: Top speed 73.4 MPH Garmin GPS'd with a huge increase in acceleration and pull in all ranges

Check mate poser man, results speak for themselves a lot more than your trash talk. And it looks like others have realized this as well.

I propose you go and do a Dio swap in your Spree, build it up with a full stroker or mini, take your pick. Do it right, source your parts, tune it to a tee THEN come back here and DOCUMENT everything you did and SHOW US ALL HOW IT'S DONE. I'm sure you can spent a few hundred bucks to do something so easy, and you MUST have the right equipment and know the RIGHT people than can sort you out.

Until then I'll pass on you and your gibberish like a small insignificant poof of flatulence.

burnt_toast · Post by **burnt_toast** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:55 pm

jstone wrote:This discussion is ridiculous. At first I thought that maybe bear really wanted to ask Burnt something because he truely didn't understand, then the more I read, the more appalled I became at his sheer lack of intelligence on this subject.

Of course the IDEAL way of doing it is to mill the cases, and install a true stroker kit, but by doing so you compromise the reliability of the motor. Strokers are not every day drivers. They are high performance, low life, racing engines. IMO, Burnt wanted a reliable, but fast scooter, and thats exactly what he has. With the mini-stroker you don't lose case integrity.

Who cares about the getting the BEST POSSIBLE port timing. He never states that his goal was to create the fastest mini-stroker. He is perfectly happy with it, and it is very impressive.

Why don't you just leave this forum Bear? You have nothing to gain here because apparently, you already know it all. Your only purpose here is to tell everyone else what they're doing wrong. And I think I speak for the majority when I say... WE DON'T CARE.

Bravo jstone, cheers to that.

Dac · Post by **Dac** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:56 pm

Are you kidding Burnt_Toast?

this guy is a great with motors! he could probably build up his spree faster then your elite.

[/sarcasm]

burnt_toast · Post by **burnt_toast** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:07 pm

jstone wrote:Lmfao, are you really comparing scooter tuning to the problems facing our country? You have got to be kidding me. How about this, me and you have an argument about SCOOTER TUNING without you bringing up your knowledge of outboard motors, or any type of motor for that matter that does not belong in a Dio, because that is what the discussion is about.

You don't just go find a Corsa bore laying around and start changing the port timing. They are the BEST. I think Dac already stated that didn't he? Pay attention... Those bores are way to valuable to start grinding on. Now if you would pay attention to the discussion at hand, you would realize things like this. Instead you keep citing your knowledge on other things that do not pertain to this discussion. Which means you know that you're wrong, and you're trying to divert the attention elsewhere. You need to find you a nice outboard forum, and go to town.

This forum is about scooters. Plain jane, one cylinder, one carb, one set of reed valves, 2 stroke motors. Thats it. I'm sure that you know more about motors in general than I could ever dream of knowing, I admit that, and its fine with me. What gets me is that you're argueing about a subject that you know very little about. Until you can state some facts pertaining to the discussion, that do not include outboards, then you should just admit your ignorance, and move on.

Second beer for jstone

I love how bear keeps trying to go on about his boats.

clearly avoiding the key points and not paying attention.

burnt_toast · Post by **burnt_toast** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:12 pm

Dac wrote: Are you kidding Burnt_Toast?

this guy is a great with motors! he could probably build up his spree faster then your elite.

[/sarcasm]

Yeah too bad he's old, senile, ignorant and a

And I don't mean cat..

Bear45-70 · Post by **Bear45-70** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:45 pm

burnt_toast wrote:
Dac wrote: Are you kidding Burnt_Toast?

this guy is a great with motors! he could probably build up his spree faster then your elite.

[/sarcasm]
Yeah too bad he's old, senile, ignorant and a

And I don't mean cat..

Burnt, the following applies to you 100%, but in your case you will never be the latter.

"To be old and wise you must first be young and stupid!"

"To err is human, to really make a mess of things requires a teenager."

Bear45-70 · Post by **Bear45-70** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:46 pm

burnt_toast wrote:
jstone wrote:Lmfao, are you really comparing scooter tuning to the problems facing our country? You have got to be kidding me. How about this, me and you have an argument about SCOOTER TUNING without you bringing up your knowledge of outboard motors, or any type of motor for that matter that does not belong in a Dio, because that is what the discussion is about.

You don't just go find a Corsa bore laying around and start changing the port timing. They are the BEST. I think Dac already stated that didn't he? Pay attention... Those bores are way to valuable to start grinding on. Now if you would pay attention to the discussion at hand, you would realize things like this. Instead you keep citing your knowledge on other things that do not pertain to this discussion. Which means you know that you're wrong, and you're trying to divert the attention elsewhere. You need to find you a nice outboard forum, and go to town.

This forum is about scooters. Plain jane, one cylinder, one carb, one set of reed valves, 2 stroke motors. Thats it. I'm sure that you know more about motors in general than I could ever dream of knowing, I admit that, and its fine with me. What gets me is that you're argueing about a subject that you know very little about. Until you can state some facts pertaining to the discussion, that do not include outboards, then you should just admit your ignorance, and move on.
Second beer for jstone

I love how bear keeps trying to go on about his boats. clearly avoiding the key points and not paying attention.

The only key point is you know a lot in your mind only.

Dac · Post by **Dac** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:48 pm

What?

Bear45-70 · Post by **Bear45-70** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:50 pm

Dac wrote:
...It was about the bogus info Burnt was putting out about "effective stroke" of which there is no such thing.

He was putting it in terms people can understand.
"effective stroke" makes perfect since to me. there is so much of a stroke, but he is using gaskets to not use the full stroke, so he was telling how much of the stroke he was using. If i had to word it myself i would also use the words "effective stroke". it makes perfect since.

Stroke is an absolute. It is like the displacement of an engine, it is a specific number of cc's and there is no "effective" anything about it. It is what it is. If people understand "effective stroke" they are smoking too much dope.

ALOW1 · Post by **ALOW1** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:41 pm

Bear45-70 wrote: You don't want to do the work, just get someone else to do it. The lazy man gets what he deserves.

The lazy man gets what he deserves..... lmao.

If anybody should be talking about being lazy it sure as * shouldn't be you. You say you have a bad back, no wonder whens the last time you looked in a mirror?

This next quote should of read something like this:

Bear45-70 wrote:
Stroke is an absolute. It is like the displacement of an engine, it is a specific number of cc's and there is no "effective" anything about it. It is what it is. If people understand "effective stroke" they are smoking too much dope.

Bear45-70 wrote: Fat is an absolute. It is like the size of my gut, its a specific number of pounds and there is nothing "effective" anything about any of me. It is what I am. If people understand "I am fat and lazy" they would understand that I smoked too much dope.

The lazy man gets what he deserves.

Dac · Post by **Dac** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:51 pm

LOCKED

Dac · Post by **Dac** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:21 am

Wait! one last thing.

ForumsHawaii.Net - Moped/Scooter Section

There is a lot of people on that site that need tuning advice.

burnt_toast · Post by **burnt_toast** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:13 am

Good going Dac, I was going to Lock this up last night but went to bed.

Let me just outline a few words in conclusion:

1. I NEVER set out to make the PERFECT race machine, just something fun reliable and fast without going overboard on the budget

2. I did things in a way that has worked for me and lots of others who build drag and race scooters, I had their support and suggestions and find them much more relevant than yours

3. Bear if you're going to tell us how things are done, be ready to backup your info with RELEVENT SCOOTER advice

4. Make comparisons all you want, boats are not scooters and sure theory can be applied, but there are plenty of differences in scooter tuning world

5. You have clearly not understood the points made in this thread and continually avoided them, read it over again and get some sense.

6. If you want to drone on about your boats and past experiances GO to a BOAT forum, enough said. Most of us really just don't care here.

7. By trying to show off your years of knowledge pertaining to a different subject and disclaiming others in areas you do not understand, has only made you look like a fool.

8. Prove us wrong and build a fast scooter, do it "right" and DOCUMENT IT. Maybe then you'll get some more credit, otherwise stay out and stick to your boats.