I cant find the thread that talks about too lean/rich

scooternewby · Post by **scooternewby** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:37 am

I think I read a thread a thread about how to tell if im running too lean or too rich. Does anyone know what thread I mean? Can you post a link?

I'll delete this thread right after I find it.

Thanks, I just want to read up on it before I put my scoot back together!

Dac · Post by **Dac** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:10 pm

run for a little bit and pull out the plug.

white - lean
black - Rich
co-co brown - perfect.

thats the simple way of saying it. But its very complex and as of now we dont have a topic for it.

Hopefully Arnadanoob will post in this topic and help us all out.

Arnadanoob, you are good with making things understandable. And this website needs a lean/rich guide. Please Help.

scooternewby · Post by **scooternewby** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:14 pm

And where am I looking for these colors? On the tip of the plug? Are you talking about a plug chop?

Thanks

Dac · Post by **Dac** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:18 pm

scooternewby wrote:And where am I looking for these colors? On the tip of the plug? Are you talking about a plug chop?

Thanks

yeah, in order to tell if the bike is lean/rich you have to put a new plug in, ride for a few miles and kill the motor while WOT. and check the color of the plug.
The hole plug chop theory is very flawed and one of the main reasons is that when your breaking in something you shouldnt go WOT.

you really have to play with jets and get a feel for what the motors feeling. As kenny often says, "keep upjetting till it 4 strokes. then go down one". This is a crazy idea. but it does work.

Bear45-70 · Post by **Bear45-70** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:40 pm

scooternewby wrote:And where am I looking for these colors? On the tip of the plug? Are you talking about a plug chop?

Thanks

The porcelain of the plug tip. Yes, he means a plug chop, which is a term I never heard of until I came here. But it is sort of descriptive.

losthope · Post by **losthope** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:12 pm

Bear45-70 wrote:
scooternewby wrote:And where am I looking for these colors? On the tip of the plug? Are you talking about a plug chop?

Thanks
The porcelain of the plug tip. Yes, he means a plug chop, which is a term I never heard of until I came here. But it is sort of descriptive.

i was always told that looking at the porcelain doesnt have much to do with airfuel mixture. looking at the porcelain helps in choosing a heat range. to look at your airfuel mixture you need to look down inside the plug where the porcelain meets the shell and look and read the "soot" ring.

Kenny_McCormic · Post by **Kenny_McCormic** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:27 pm

Dac wrote:
scooternewby wrote:And where am I looking for these colors? On the tip of the plug? Are you talking about a plug chop?

Thanks
yeah, in order to tell if the bike is lean/rich you have to put a new plug in, ride for a few miles and kill the motor while WOT. and check the color of the plug.
The hole plug chop theory is very flawed and one of the main reasons is that when your breaking in something you shouldnt go WOT.

you really have to play with jets and get a feel for what the motors feeling. As kenny often says, "keep upjetting till it 4 strokes. then go down one". This is a crazy idea. but it does work.

Its how you do it, its called guaranteed some small change wont push it over the edge and turn a $150 bore kit into some cast iron and aluminum scrap.

Dac · Post by **Dac** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:48 pm

I split the thread starting with Arnadanoob post and i leave the ones after it too because it was all good info.

Arnadanoob i would just like to thank you as a mod of this site for sharing this information in such a helpful way. Your article on Rollers/springs was one of the best to hit this site in a long time. You followed it up by explaining the idea behind stroker motors in a way everyone can understand.
Now you have just typed out an amazing article about lean/rich that is by far the best type up i have read.

We are glad to have you on the site.

Bear45-70 · Post by **Bear45-70** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:51 pm

Yes, that is true, but the claim that more oil gives you more power was never explained. It's true BTW and I even know why but can't post it.

Dac · Post by **Dac** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:12 pm

Bear45-70 wrote:Yes, that is true, but the claim that more oil gives you more power was never explained. It's true BTW and I even know why but can't post it.

And thats why im thanking him and not you.

Bear45-70 · Post by **Bear45-70** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:35 pm

Dac wrote:
Bear45-70 wrote:Yes, that is true, but the claim that more oil gives you more power was never explained. It's true BTW and I even know why but can't post it.
And thats why im thanking him and not you.

So what you are saying is that since you don't like me you would rather remain ignorant.

That sure doesn't hurt me at all.

Arnadanoob · Post by **Arnadanoob** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:29 pm

Wow thanks for the praise, the information is available through people who's worked in the trade and with the gift of the internet, it's available to everyone as long as you're decent with using search engines.

I'm not a mechanical engineer nor a moped/scooter scientist so I can't explain in too much detail however the idea behind why the engine makes more power with more oil is based on a combination of friction reduction and better compression. There is the factor of ignition since you can put all the oil you want but the spark needs to be able to fire through it. There's a point where the practical benefits starts to decline in relation to the extra oil used.

Kenny_McCormic · Post by **Kenny_McCormic** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:50 pm

People who race 2 stroke karts at 15,000 RPM like to use 16:1 or fatter, fine platinum tip plugs will fire soaked in oil in my experience.

Bear45-70 · Post by **Bear45-70** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:52 pm

Arnadanoob wrote:Wow thanks for the praise, the information is available through people who's worked in the trade and with the gift of the internet, it's available to everyone as long as you're decent with using search engines.

I'm not a mechanical engineer nor a moped/scooter scientist so I can't explain in too much detail however the idea behind why the engine makes more power with more oil is based on a combination of friction reduction and better compression. There is the factor of ignition since you can put all the oil you want but the spark needs to be able to fire through it. There's a point where the practical benefits starts to decline in relation to the extra oil used.

Only minor power gains from those things. The real power gains come from the oxygenate compounds in the oil.

Kenny_McCormic · Post by **Kenny_McCormic** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:58 pm

Bear45-70 wrote:
Arnadanoob wrote:Wow thanks for the praise, the information is available through people who's worked in the trade and with the gift of the internet, it's available to everyone as long as you're decent with using search engines.

I'm not a mechanical engineer nor a moped/scooter scientist so I can't explain in too much detail however the idea behind why the engine makes more power with more oil is based on a combination of friction reduction and better compression. There is the factor of ignition since you can put all the oil you want but the spark needs to be able to fire through it. There's a point where the practical benefits starts to decline in relation to the extra oil used.
Only minor power gains from those things. The real power gains come from the oxygenate compounds in the oil.

Elaborate, i always thought it was just a better seal, lower friction, and better heat transfer.