HELP! Very sick little scoot

[twsnagel]

I purchased for $50 a 1985 Spree.

It had sat outside for an unknown time prior to me getting it. It had no keys, no plastic rear panels.

I took it home, checked that there was oil in the tank, hotwired the ignition, put my batterycharger on it, and switched the charger to "BOOST".

Great news, the starter went rrr-rrr-rrr. So it wasn't seized!

NOW HERE'S WHERE THE STORY GOES BAD.

All of a sudden, it didn't go rrr-rrr-rrr any more. I could hear the starter relay click, but no starter action. I read the technical manual, and by following the troubleshooting chart, I figured that the starter motor might have gone bad. So I applied 12V directly to the starter contacts (from a car battery) and nothing.

AND HERE'S WHERE THE STORY GOES UGLY:
I thought that I would pull the starter off and see if it was finished. So I tipped the scoot over on it's side to get easier access to the starter bolts, and WATER CAME OUT ON THE FLOOR OF THE GARAGE! I know it was water because it didn't mix with the spilled oil on the floor, it beaded up. I don't know where the water came from, but I think it was from inside the engine somehow.

I notice that the oil pump is very loose, it needs tightening. It seems really strange, but is it possible that the water somehow came from the crankcase and leaked out between the pump and the block? It seems pretty far fetched, but I can't figure out where else it could be coming out of.

So I've got a scoot that has water in it, somewhere, and now a starter that won't work.

Any suggestions as to where I should go from here? Maybe just call the kidney car line and donate it for a tax reciept?

Thanks for the input,
Tyler

[darat]

dont do that. we can help u with this problem and any other problem that u might have? where do u live to.

[vette76]

u wont get much of a tax deduction. second there might be water in the crankcase. however, it might not because if it was sitting for a long time i dobt the starter would turn it over from rust. it might be a good idea to check tho. for the starter, i am uessing u fried it when switching to "boost". im not sure but most chargers output 200amps on boost. not sure if it is that much with yours, but i wouldnt put more then 4 amps through it. were u running the charger through the batt? if u just ran it through the leads then more then likely you fried the starter. THERE NEEDS TO BE A BATT. IN PLACE! dead or not. trust me. ive been there.

[noiseguy]

The crankcase could have been full of water. Pull the spark plug and see what's inside. Hopefully you weren't compressing water.

Since it was sitting outside, the wiring's probably corroded. Read posts by Ferchja (do a search,) he had to troubleshoot wiring on a scoot with the same background. You will need to sort out the wiring to the starter. You can also directly actuate the starter.

I think someone wrote a FAQ on getting garaged scooters back on the road. Read up on that.

A auto booster provides more than ample charge, your fuse should blow before your wiring.... I'd jump the scoot off an auto battery, though. Safer, IMHO.

You can still probably get this running. Post your location and come back when you've checked out the inside of the jug and wiring.

[twsnagel]

Thanks for the advice.

Yes, I had a 7.5A fuse in the fuse holder. No, it didn't blow.

Yes, when I boosted it, I hooked the boost clips up to the battery terminals on the bike. There was an old battery still on the bike that was reading 5V. I left it there.

After the starter didn't work anymore, I applied 12V to the starter terminals from the car battery, but I didn't disconnect the wiring harness.

I think that the wiring is still in good shape, because when I hotwire it, the oil light turns on, and the horn works. BEEP BEEP! (I just couldn't resist.)

So the general consensus is that I should pull the plug, and see if there is water in the cylinder. I'll try to do that tonight.

Should I take the muffler off also, and the starter, and see if the starter runs disconnected from the bike? Or is it worth the effort at this point?

Also, should I take the whole swingarm off to make it easier to to work, or should I leave it connected to the bike?

By the way, what size socket is the plug? I need to buy one, I don't have one that fits.

I live in Calgary, Alberta, Canada -- same place as Steve (nelly) but I don't know him.

Thanks,
Tyler

[hondaman]

A 13/16 deep socket should work just fine.

[twsnagel]

Thanks Hondaman! I'll pick one up on the way home tonight and look in the cylinder.

To summarize my questions:
1) Should I take the starter off at this point?
2) Should I take the swingarm off at this point?

Thanks,
Tyler

[burnt_toast]

Thanks Hondaman! I'll pick one up on the way home tonight and look in the cylinder.

To summarize my questions:
1) Should I take the starter off at this point?
2) Should I take the swingarm off at this point?

Thanks,
Tyler

NO and NO!!! y would do that. u shouldn't have jumped it directly from the starter using a charger anyway, most likely it is fried. However, buy a new battery or try jumping the current one from a car. DO NOT USE A CHARGER TO JUMP!! Even doing so by connecting it to the battery can do damage.

However, if even after the starter is dry and jumping it or a new battery wont get it going, then you shoul take it out and see what you can do.

[twsnagel]

Thanks for the commets, Burnt Toast!

So your suggestion is just to pull the plug and look in the cylinder?

What should I do after that, post back? Or is there anything else I should do?

[twsnagel]

Hi all,
I pulled the plug, as suggested, and there is, indeed, moisture in the cylinder, but it's not "full" of water.

From what I could see, the head and the cylinder walls still look smooth.

Any suggestions for how to proceed?

I'm guessing the crankcase is full of water also, and that it did leak out through the loose oil pump.

The starter still does not turn, but the relay clicks.

Thanks,
Tyler

[deathwish]

my starter relay was doin the sain thing i got a new one and it worked again..try bypassing the realy and if it works u kno its ur relay

[twsnagel]

I don't think it's the relay. I apply 12V to the starter and it doesn't turn.

I'm going to pull the starter tonight and see if it turns on its own.

Tyler

[noiseguy]

You may have fried the starter. Hit Ebay for a replacement if you can get it sorted out. If it's just brushes/bearings, you can sometimes clean them up.

What you may want to do, if the starter is fried, is use an air gun or drill with a socket on the drive pulley to start this scoot. To do this:
1) Remove the LHS cover
2) Remove drive pulley (pulley attached to crankshaft)
3) Remove the starter bendix (little gear with spring)
4) Reinstall pulley

I don't recommend this usually, but given the history and state of the scooter, you don't want to spend money on it until you figure out if the engine's bottom end is trashed. Cranking on the drive pulley CW should start the engine.

Disconnect the automatic oiler and plug it's connection to the intake manifold with a rubber cap. Run 32:1 premix of clean gas. Try to start it again, jumped off a car battery this time.

If you pull the automatic oiler out, you should be able to dump the water from the crankcase by (nearly) inverting the scoot.

Once you get it running we can sort the rest. Best of luck.

[twsnagel]

What you may want to do, if the starter is fried, is use an air gun or drill with a socket on the drive pulley to start this scoot. To do this:
1) Remove the LHS cover
2) Remove drive pulley (pulley attached to crankshaft)
3) Remove the starter bendix (little gear with spring)
4) Reinstall pulley

Thanks, noiseguy! I was worried about investing more in a battery and starter without knowing the condition. You rock.

I've already taken the starter off. Should I reinstall it and take the bendix off, or can I just plug the starter hole with a rubber cap also?

[vette76]

bendex should come out incase it moves and hits the ring gear.