86 honda spree will not go

[N9Waterboy]

hello all,

I have been reading this site for a good 2 months, everyday, and it has helped me considerably. However, I have run into a problem that I cannot figure out. I have a 1986 honda spree that sat for years. I did all the maintenance suggested on the site, including painstakingly cleaning the carb, new plug, etc. Got it running perfectly, and took it out riding for an hour. The next day I rode it to work, ran fine, but on the way back it bogged out and I couldn't get it started. Cleaned the carb again, and engine runs great like it did before. However now it will not get moving. It has no pick up. On a flat road I got it up to about 15 slowly. I have good compression, checked for air leaks and there are none. Carb is clean and getting good gas. Exhaust is not clogged. The belt still looks like new to me so I'm assuming it is ok. I am very new to all this and am taking my time trying to figure it out. Unless you all have other ideas, could it maybe be a problem with the clutch or transmission?
I've searched on the subjects but really haven't found anything that sounds like my situation. Any help would be appreciated and sorry for the long post.

[Lunytune]

However now it will not get moving. It has no pick up. On a flat road I got it up to about 15 slowly.
Carb is clean and getting good gas.

Diagnosing over the internet is fun. Yeah right. Part of the reason a search doesn't help is thread titles don't always describe accurately. Here goes. I can only tell you what I have experienced and I now beat the drum heavy, having been frustrated like you.

Carburetor may look clean, but I bet it's not. There are several passageways, some so small you will miss them if you're not looking with good light. Now let me tell you where I think your problem is. Look at the Carburetor from the bowl side. You will see the main jet tube. Pull the jet, and from the other end push out the little cylinder inside using the eraser end of a pencil. Don't use a screwdriver, lest you do damage. That little cylinder has some little bitty holes in it on its sides that must be clean. Secondly, parallel to the main jet tube is another one, smaller. Turn the carburetor back upright and look down inside from the throttle valve end. In the middle is the main jet hole. Now, on the parameter of the throttle valve cavity, you will see another itty-bitty teeny weeny hole. How small? You will be cleaning it with a .013" guitar string. That's the small one. I think my son told me the E string. He's the musician in the family. Make sure that hole is clean and you can squirt carb cleaner through it. If that channel is not clean, you will not have any secondary RPM or power. I realize it may not look large enough to effect RPM or power, but it apparently does a balancing act between the bowl and throttle valve. If it ain't clean, you will have problems exactly as you have described.

Let me know if this works.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Nitrogen9H20Boy describes an ailing '86 Spree-cidivism:

Got it running perfectly, and took it out riding for an hour. The next day I rode it to work, ran fine, but on the way back it bogged out and I couldn't get it started.

and:

Cleaned the carb again, and engine runs great like it did before.

and

However now it will not get moving. It has no pick up. On a flat road I got it up to about 15 slowly

.

What I'm not reading is whether or not the engine sounds willing and able but the transmission isn't cooperating versus
weak, sputtering, or balky engine performance. I'll assume the latter for the moment, because of the recurrent nature of the symptom. Also because driveline failures are a lot less common than power source problems. (Just check your brake adjustment for tricky friends' pranks...)

Being the lazy cuss that I am, I like to see if some really easy things fix the problem first. Before you go pulling carbs and ladling out great steaming vats of Highly Toxic Organic Solvents, pull the plug. No, I mean as in Sparking Plug. See what it look like. Is it a nice cardboard brown color, free from specs of melted-on metal and/or thick coatings of soot?

Yes? Replace it anyway. You already have it out in your hand. There, that took 5 minutes and cost $2.69 with tax. It might not run any different, but you did no actual work. On the other hand, it was running "perfectly" yesterday, and I always blame the plug first until proven otherwise. Few things can change your scooter's performance as dramatically and rapidly as a fouled plug.

Having the old plug out, you can also get some idea of your state of tune. There aren't many things that would make jetting OK one day and not the next. Jetting that worked on Wednesday should still be OK Thursday, unless something broke. Working from the outside in:

1. A golf ball from an errant stroke at the Mini-Putt is lodged in your airbox intake. (Or any other obstruction, like a mouse's nest, plastic Quickee-Mart bag, or Deadly Poisonous Spreeders.)
2. The foam filter element finally collapsed into a soup of agglutinated polyurethane. (If so, you've been running lean!)
3. Your reed valves have finally slapped their last stopper and have split/fractured/bent up.

Mufflers can carbonize, but that's usually an excruciatingly slow decline in performance. Same for wear in the top end, usually. Transmission and wheel bearings can seize up too, but you would likely notice that rolling it around. Check those brake adjusting nuts again... It's less work.

If that's no help, follow LT's advice.

[gspreesea]

I hate to say but it may be the clutch is worn out;
Put a kid or someone fairly light on the seat and see if it goes better with them on it.
If it sounds like you are fully wound out on the throttle and its only going 15, that could indication of a slipping clutch,
of course I would do all the other checks before tackling that job, carb cleansing, take your muff off and BBQ/decarbonize it, brake adjust,and renew the spark plug. I hope you can get her going sorry you are having trouble, they are so much fun and such a gas saver.

-86 Spree "step child"

[N9Waterboy]

I guess I should have mentioned some of this earlier but I had forgotten and the post was so long already. Have used the old and a brand new plug, did a chop and it was a nice brown. Secondly before I had it running, I discarded the gooey old air filter. Now I when I test drove it, it was without any filter in the box. I know these things run finnicky without one, but it was driving perfectly w/o it. I was getting speeds around 28-30. The next thing I will try is a new filter, but I really don't think that is the problem here. As far as the carb goes, I can see light through even the tiniest of holes. I had a guy who weighs a good 75 lbs less than me on it and same deal, won't go. The wheel spins when I have it on the stand and the engine sounds like it wants to go, no sputters or anything. It revs perfect. Checked reed valves and they are perfect as well. Now I have to be honest I cannot get the main jet out of the carb b/c that little screw on the bowl side will not budge and started to scrape shards of metal when I turned the flathead driver, so I left it alone. I just figured if the engine sounds like its running great, carb must be OK. Brake adjustment sounds interesting, never thought of that, I'll try that as well. But if none of the above help, clutch problem ya think? Again sorry for the long post, this site & u guys are great!

[eliteguy50]

After running with out an air filter I would check carb again for dirt (hopefully) otherwise I would guess the top end.

I have good compression

How much compression (psi) is "good" to you? How did you test it? running lean and then a sudden increase in humidity or decrease in temp can cause this.

did you try putting a little bit (less than a teaspoon) of oil (2 stroke) into the cylinder through the spark plug hole, then crank it. then start it?

[Lunytune]

After running with out an air filter I would check carb again for dirt (hopefully) otherwise I would guess the top end.

I have good compression

How much compression (psi) is "good" to you? How did you test it? running lean and then a sudden increase in humidity or decrease in temp can cause this.

did you try putting a little bit (less than a teaspoon) of oil (2 stroke) into the cylinder through the spark plug hole, then crank it. then start it?

Honda manual says compression should run 114-171 psi. Automotive industry says 90 psi. But I don't think that's your problem. But I still advise you to check it since it is so simple to do. Putting oil into the chamber may be okay for testing but not so good for running. It would dissapate quickly and also risk fouling the plug. That's not a long term solution. It will confirm the condition of your reed valve, however, as psi will exceed dry test. I just tested my Dio. Dry test 30 psi, wet test 200 psi. Reed is good, rings bad. I don't think your problem is in the top end, or you wouldn't be able to start it easily,

I cannot get the main jet out of the carb b/c that little screw on the bowl side will not budge and started to scrape shards of metal when I turned the flathead driver, so I left it alone. I just figured if the engine sounds like its running great, carb must be OK.

AHA! If you have not done a thorough cleaning of the carburetor you haven't eliminated it as the cause. If you try to remove ANY screw with a damaged or worn screwdriver, you risk damaging. The jet is brass and soft. You might be able to remove it with a properly dressed screwdriver. Gunsmiths even insist on proper thickness of the screwdriver bit to avoid damage. At any rate, you can't eliminate the carburetor until you have removed the jet (replace with a new one now that you've damaged the old one) and cleaned the little tube in there. Also, I will refer you again to the passageway that runs parallel to the main jet. I've never seen daylight through that hole as it is somewhat doglegged. squirting carb cleaner through it is only way to know it is clear.

[N9Waterboy]

thanks guys, I will check a few of those suggestions and get back to you

[N9Waterboy]

I've tried every screwdriver I have & could not get this jet out, just keeps shaving the brass...am I gonna need a whole new carb?

[Lunytune]

I've tried every screwdriver I have & could not get this jet out, just keeps shaving the brass...am I gonna need a whole new carb?

It can be salvaged... in the right hands. After you buy another carb (look on ebay) send that carb to me. I think I can salvage it... or totally destroy it trying.

[eliteguy50]

this is where a picture is worth a thousand words. there are several of us on here who can fix (remove the jet) that carb but can't tell how far gone it is. I'd fix it if you pay the shipping both ways...we can't discourage you noob's too much. but for future reference, you want the fattest slat head that will fit all the way in the jet's groove. But I would not buy another carb until you have someone try that has experience...no sense in wasting money.

[Lunytune]

Well fix your spelling eliteguy because I'm sure he doesn't know what a "slat head" screwdriver is.

Waterboy, in the future, make sure you have a screwdriver that fits the slot and is not worn. If you don't have a bench grinder put the the screwdriver in a vise and use a file to flatten and square the tip. This applies to lots of things other than Honda Carbs. I think I stated this earlier, but I do some amatuer gunsmithing so I've got special screwdrivers for that reason, different fatness, different width, different types (flat, phillips, torx, allen).

There are a number of ways you can remove the jet, if it's not too late, but does take diligence and experience. Like Eliteguy sez, need a video camera, but better one on one, person to person. Two issues. You've got to careful not to get into the brass tube, or you'll be replacing that too. I'm not sure they are easy to come by. Secondly, it takes a steady hand and staying straight. You can use a special reverse twist bit, or an easeout. Both require skill.

If I were you, I'd take Eliteguy up on his offer. Or maybe you might know a professional mechanic or even a sharp handyman who knows how to do it. Local is best if you can find such a person.

[eliteguy50]

Well fix your spelling eliteguy because I'm sure he doesn't know what a "slat head" screwdriver is.

not spelling, my generational vocabulary. my boss(like 70 year old guy then) I had way back in high school called flat head screw drivers "slat head" screw drivers. it slips out every now and againfrom me, D***. I guess he called it that because the head was a slat.
but yes, I doubt N9Waterboy knows that
Back on topic...Lunytune is also right about

Local is best if you can find such a person.

because you will most likely have additional questions as you progress with scooting. either way, the forum will be here to help.

[Lunytune]

Eliteguy, you're okay. Wish we were closer. It takes me 6 hours just to get to the Iowa border.

Waterboy, do you realize we don't even know where you are. Somebody might be close enough to help if we knew.

[toofast34]

check your reeds......