New (to me) Spree. Engine help needed.

[Sasha's 87 Elite]

Too bad you can't put it in gear like an old dirt bike...and just roll it backward while in gear... I have seized a couple old dirtbikes and just letting it cool and moving it in gear was enough to get it going again(un stuck)... just got real hot and needed to cool down I guess. maybe try a counter rotation to dislodge it? just my 2 cents..

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

The piston may indeed be seized to the cylinder. However before you even start disassembling the cooling shroud, why not simply unbolt the oil pump? Pull it out, then see if the engine will turn. It could be the pump jamming the crank. The counter-rotation idea is a good one, too.

[benH]

thanks for the help and suggestions.

update:

I rebuilt the top end. a ring snapped. I got a ring kit from the honda house and installed it. the piston itself is pretty worn, lots of vertical streaking you can feel with your fingers, and the cylinder was pretty dirty, so im assuming its going to lose a lot of power there, but I cleaned it out pretty well. I may end up replacing the piston so it does better, but I will probably need a new jug too. It apparently got very hot, the plastic cover over the top end had melted to the piston head, and thats most likely what was smoking and smelling.

I also took off the drive side cover of this thing and cleaned and oiled and rebuilt the kick starter since it was catching the wrong teeth, and made sure the starter was clean. also oiled the opposite side where the plastic white wheel of the starter (I guess) is, so it rotates much smoother than it did. last i took out and cleaned and reinstalled all the parts associated with the belt. gotta say that thing seems pretty weak, im a fan of chains.

It had a half a tank of gas, so just for assurance, I put a little bit of gas treatment to try and help the carb for the time being, and put a spoonful of 2stroke oil in to mix up, since I don't trust the previous owners ratio.

It. Is. Now. Running.

it smokes, and I plan on either locating some help in fixing the oil pump (which I cleaned and bled and the light remains on) or plugging up the oil intake on the pump and emptying the gas and premixing some of my own fresh gas and oil to a proper ratio, so hopefully it wont run like a boat. it's running smoother, but it still has these moments where it just idles high and makes some weird noises, then goes back down for a few minutes. Im going to assume the carb is filthy and that is next in line.

[dem0nk1d]

I'm thinking it's going to need some time for the rings to break in, and then you'll be set. But all in all it was pretty easy to replace the piston and rings. Next time if you see any scoring in the jug, run down to your local parts store and pick up a brakehone hit. Just go home chuck it up in the old drill press and hone all that uneven surface material out. This way you know the jug is solid.

[portets]

i'm not an expert, but from what i know, you should probably replace the cylinder and piston also.

i would recommend one of tazlands kits. search "nq 50 big bore" on ebay. i'm about to install one in a week.
more power, and it's new, so most likely more reliable than your engine is now. and i don't think you should worry about trying to fix the oil injection. just premix.
if it broke once, it's probably more likely to break again

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

it smokes, and I plan on either locating some help in fixing the oil pump (which I cleaned and bled and the light remains on)

The light gets its signal from a float level sender in the oil tank. Sometimes the sender sticks, it may be fixable.

or plugging up the oil intake on the pump

I understand that if the pump doesn't get any oil, it will eventually seize and take your crankshaft with it. It must be removed and a plug - available from tuner shops like VT Cycles - must be screwed down in its place.

and emptying the gas and premixing some of my own fresh gas and oil to a proper ratio, so hopefully it wont run like a boat.

Fresh gasoline is always a good idea. If your pump is working - see testing procedures in Technical Section - Service Manuals - I suggest you don't add oil to your fresh fuel.

[bradthreee]

If you are running premix, why not just eliminate the gear on the oil pump then pop that sucker back in? I know that it will unscrew from the oil pump housing. Also your oil light is on because you dont have any oil in the the oil tank! Unplug the two little wires connected to your oil sender unit on top of the oil tank. Viola, no more light!

Personally, since its for your GF....I would just replace the oil pump. Bleed the lines, top off the oil tank with Honda injector oil, throw some seafoam in the tank and call it a day.

I really hope that you downloaded the service manual and torqued down the head bolts to proper specs. I also hope that you replaced the base and head gaskets as well after removong all the old gasket material

[benH]

there is oil in the tank, I assume the light indicator is simply stuck.

I am going to replace the piston and cylinder and gaskets and rings...not much of a choice really. and dont really need a kit but if thats all that is available I might go that route. an oem site i know charges almost 200 bucks for everything i need...not too stoked on that. taking the entire pump off would mean Id need something else to run the other lines in then wouldnt it? I have several lines going into the mechanism the oil line is connected to (which i thought was the pump) and is connected to the bottom end, unless i'm mistaken.

I torqued the bolts, but didn't replace the gaskets... but since it wont be ridden any in order to prevent further damage until the new parts are installed, there isn't really much of a point in that anyway is there???

of course, while I had it all taken apart, I put a small dead animal and some kerosene in the cylinder just for good measure, then fired it back up to make sure the starter was smooth and working still. shouldnt be a problem.

[mkluvin]

I think bear says alot of good things but here is my 2 cents

you need a 8mm a 10mm a 12mm(maybe ) and a 17mm

first take off the kicker cover (8MM wrench ) look it over the belt should be a bit loose to snug. in the lower left corner is the starter reduction gear it will be a bit loose as one side is held in by the cover . dont even try to take it out ,it wont clear the flywheel. once you have the cover off you will see a 17 mm nut on the fly wheel you should be able to roll the engine over by turning it. watch to make sure the reduction gear is not engaged, you dont want binding . if the thing wont roll will need to make sure the belt isn't hung up.
total cost 0

on the other side is a fan cover you can take this off and see the mag its under the fan just look for hang ups
total cost 0

if the engine still wont roll you need to take the plastic housing off the top of the cylinder and head. there are 4 bolts on the top these go through the head and sleeve into the crankcase.you can remove bolts then try to loosen the head try not to use to much pressure. you dont want to lift the piston sleeve from the crank if you can help it as to try to save the lower gasket, the top gasket is a metal plate with a groove on it so if you dont bend it you can prob reuse it depending on what went on inside. if the inside wall is veiwable look for marring.with the nq50 it seems this is the most common point for lock up.if there is alot of damage you are gonna spend a bit of cash. no more than 150$ but prob not a lot less. if its marred try to use the 17mm on the flywheel this will lift the piston and sleeve as one if they're locked and the piston is not fully down.

if the piston is at the top of the stroke you can use washers to makeup the thickness of the head and bolt the sleeve back to the crank use the 17 o the flywheel nut once more to see if the piston will move.

total cost 0 or maybe new gaskets

the bad. if the cylinder is mess up the piston and rings are too

new from honda you'll pay over 200 in parts

if you can get a good cylinder on ebay or this forum you can do it for a bit less

or you can buy a big bore kit 100$ on ebay 10$ shipping (settle down bear )
this comes with a larger piston and a larger sleeve rings gaskets piston pin and clips it also come with a larger main jet. you will need to have the head milled so the crown is 3mm larger (there is a address and a phone # for a guy on the forum who does this for 20$ including return shipping.he does nice work,)
so you would have under 150$ and about a week in downtime. you would also have more low end power= better take off speeds

I am in the middle of this type of build myself

good luck

btw i have 2 pumps oil if you need one let me know its an easy swap. if this is for your girl friend its alot easier to add oil than mix gas.

[portets]

small dead animal..........

that gave me a great idea!!!

hamster powered scooter! just attach a hamster wheel to the crank!!!

swap in a dio? naw...... swap in a hamster!!!!


anyway..... the kit for the spree is rather small.. 57cc. just 8 cc's bigger than stock. but i recommend it, being cheaper than the stock replacement. $100 for the buy it now, or you can enter the auction where they start out at $75

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-Sp ... leQ5fParts

[mkluvin]

d*** i should have read the whle thing before typing

[bradthreee]

If you already have all the answers then why ask any questions?

All we are doing is trying to help out a fellow scooter owner, one that has no prior scooter experience...

My advice to you is to download the service manual for free on this site in the tech docs... It seems like you are the kind of guy that likes to do things on his own and not be told what to do which is totally cool.

If you need good used parts and would like not to spend the $200+ on new parts, PM me as I have all the parts you need. The only thing I don't have is the gaskets and the rings you have already bought.

[benH]

service manual downloaded. if its 57cc then that sounds fine, and its a good deal.

does the stock pipe fit that kit?

[portets]

yeah, stock pipe fit's. it's just a bored out oem stock cylinder to my knowledge.

everything you need but an exhaust gasket

[benH]

looks like im going to have to try to get the studs out of the old manifold then, or get some new ones, the bigbore kit has threaded holes w/out studs