Flash III PhaseII: Tuning MadDog's Worst (Again!) Setup

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Friday, September 25th, Quoth MadDog:

dude you maxed out your stock build and did it the right way- congrads.

Tuesday October 6th, Quoth MadDog:

Well its late and i can only laugh at your setup= your piston must not have any skirts to clear the case= i would just run you for pink slips and beat your sorry * low budget piece of crap

Geez, what brings this on, 'Dog? If I offended you in any way I apologize. You know how I like to kid around. I don't take any of this stuff too seriously, ya know? That's why I won't ax if someone forgot to take his Abilify again? (See there? That's another joke, son. )

My piston skirt and all of my sorry-* low budget piece of crap seems to be working pretty well, thanks for your concern. If you have a better way of doing stuff, I do wish you'd provide documentation to the Forum. I have never seen any of your work. Only mocking out-of-the-blue criticisms, mystery PMs and self-congratulatory praise of whatever you consider "Old School". All I'm trying to do is share my experiences, good and bad.

[z50r-ghost]

???? Dam Wheelman, that's confusing... i kept wondering why your title kept changing.

-i guess i'm a believer in the "positive-thoughts-or-nothing" approach to posting. -everyone does things differently and learning by doing is the best way to do anything in my opinion. -i was a tech at a Honda dealer when i was 16 years old; by FAR the youngest tech in the 'bays. i got asked alot "how did you learn to do this stuff being so young?" and "did you already go thru MMI?" nope... no MMI. i learned from working on motorcycles myself. my Dad couldn't help me out other than helping me buy my tools, and my friends simply weren't into it. i think i was about 10 when i busted apart my first bike that was donated to me, a Yamaha FZR 400. my feet couldn't touch the ground! Great learner bike!

that's the fun of scooters - figuring out what works, what doesnt and what works best! i'm all about positive comments and helping when i can.

later, j

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

The Mikuni's been great overall. WOT saw temps stabilize at a notch above 350. Idle mixture screw with the 25 Pilot is turned out over 2 turns, but that's acceptable. I have a 22.5 coming and a 20. (BTW I recently noticed that the Stage6 TM24 bears a sincerious resemblitude to this Mik, only anodized some goofy colors.)

There was a very slight but noticeable stutter just off idle when accelerating hard, but not enough to be a problem in traffic. I couldn't be sure if it was rich, lean, or a pipe issue.

My only other issue was observed when closing the throttle after a long spell at WOT. Coasting down to a red light I noticed a conspicuous absence of two-stroke trailing-throttle ring-ding-ding, accompanied by a rapid CHT needle rise to 400 in the evenings, even higher on cool(er) mornings.

Clearly this indicated a lean condition, since the engine obviously wasn't producing much power and yet it was heating up rapidly with the throttle closed. In fact it seemed to help to keep it open a little while braking. It dropped quickly down to 300-325 when the light turned green.

So I raised the needle another click (Richer). WOW!!


Alll the above? Fuggeddaboudit! Who knew moving a dang needle 0.5 mm (and changing its engaged diameter about 0.00032mm could make such a difference? I guessed right the first time for a change. Maybe I'm learning this jetting stuff yet? Nah, dumb luck.

The only downside is that I now have that hilarious ring-ding-ding again on coast down. Truly a Chick-Repellent sound. The only stronger anti-aphrodisiac known to man?

Wedding Cake.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

For excruciating minutia of my carb fine-tuning experience, see Dr. Spock and interesting input from The Bear. He still hasn't responded to the Inline Six/V6 question.

[Bear45-70]

Greetings:

For excruciating minutia of my carb fine-tuning experience, see Dr. Spock and interesting input from The Bear. He still hasn't responded to the Inline Six/V6 question.

I must be getting real old and the eye sight is failing. Because I just went back thru this whole thread, twice and I still can't find this alleged "Inline Six/V6 question". Wheelieguy, maybe you can repeat this Tower of Power/V6 question so I can respond to it.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Your are getting old, Bear but your eyesight's fine. My Inline/V6 question is in the Dr. Spock thread.

[Bear45-70]

Greetings:

Your are getting old, Bear but your eyesight's fine. My Inline/V6 question is in the Dr. Spock thread.

Ah but I did, late last night when all was quiet in the Bear's Den.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

MikuniUNI setup update.

It seems I was mistaken; the Mikuni Pilot jet is a 15, not a 25. And even the 15 is a bit rich for this application. The idle speed declines when the screw is turned in more than 2 turns out, and there's no "lean limit". Good enough to run, but I can't fine-tune and it's a bit soft when I hit the throttle off idle.

The 130 has been large enough to prevent catastrophe, but I've never heard it 4-stroke, and by Golly that's supposed to be the "correct" Tuner Way. ("Jet up 'til it 'strokes, then down") So I screwed in a 135 last night. It ran about the same, lately it's a very short trip to make the speedometer needle bend against the lens. It was also much smoother throughout the midrange cruising; I could find no combination of RPM/Throttle where it burbled, and it was very enthusiastic going back on-throttle. Furthermore the temperatures remained comfortably a needle's width below 300, and the spike I'd been seeing when the throttle was snapped shut only approached 350. It was a needle above 350 before.

Do I even need to try 140? Maybe if I have nothin' better to do some day.

E3MikUniUni.jpg (341.2 KiB) Viewed 3163 times

[veedubh20]

it good to hear about v8 pipe and rpm gauge, power is holding back.

I love to hear pg long pipe ,how she perform with rpm tach.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

I seem to recall a certain experienced tuner telling me about the limited top-end of the V8 pipe I was considering at the time, Dubh.
Although I suspected you were right as usual, I went ahead and bought it anyway because:

1: I'm a cheap farkle Bastitch.
2: My goals at the time were fast-to-fifty-five.
3: Going for the absolute maximum output possible might shorten this scooter's life.
4: I thought the Peej might be a bit loud for Polite Society.

Although I'm tempted to to screw Society and score a Pee Gee Longue, the price is outta my league right now. I've got some 8.4:1 gears to install, and I wonder if I can get to the higher top end I now seek by grinding out the better upper-midrange the V8 provides. I saw 9700 RPM last night...

BTW Provo Scooters can get Mik pilot jets down to #10 and were willing to swap that and a 12.5 for my 20-22.5. I'll try that 140 when I pull the carb for the pilot swap.
Tune in next week.

[bakaracer]

if your using a unifilter on your carb now,the 10 pilot is going to be way to small.It will bogg when you just get on the throttle or grab a quick handful and you also risk the chance of seizure at 1/8-1/4 throttle due to lean pilot.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Great, I'll try the 12.5 and see how the idle mixture adjusts and the temps with it. If I need to screw it in all the way, I'll reinstall the 15 and call it good.

[bakaracer]

You should try a pg long with that bore.If you want to quite down the carb noise,use a 87 elite 50 air box.take the snorkel out and cut out where the snorkel was to the size of the carb your using and use a hose clamp to hold in place.you will have to make a hold bracket to hold the back of the airbox to the block.I have this setup on my dads bike back home using the mikuni carb you have.It sounds almost stock,just a very little carb noise than stock.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Thanks again Baka! Got any pics of the Mikuni/SE Stock Box?

My stock airbox is long-gone, but sometimes it's tempting to complete the "sleeper" look with Authentic Honda Super-Quietness. Nah, the PG Long won't allow that, will it? Anyway, if you have a Phony Gear to lend to this project, (or an affordably-priced source to consider...) do tell.

With all in readiness for my "Bolt-In" 8.4:1 gears hewn by the most talented hands in all Taiwan, I decided to do some decidedly unscientific "Testing" this evening before removing the Ruima 9.1:1 gears. I conducted five Zero to 35 runs - O to 50 was impractical in this neighborhood/time constraints. Each run took between 5.5 and 6 seconds. Top speed came up anyway - once - and it's still "Speedometer Needle Points Directly East". (I think it's starting to wear a little groove in the bottom right of the speedo lens... )

I figured I could pull the gearcase off without stripping those accursed plastics yet again, but figured wrong. You do have to remove the rear wheel, which I guess means the pipe.

I should have daylight tomorrow after work and time to do a few runs. I'll be packin' GPS.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

The Bad News is that what was left of daylight after work was saturated with rain.

The good news is that I can remove the whole Gear Swap shootin' match without touching a single plastic fastener. The V8 pipe leaves me just enough room to remove the axle nut. If'n I don' gotta take offa da pipe, I don'gotta take offa da plastics! I can leave the wheel where it is and just pull the axle out from the gearcase side, reinstall the same way.

Since I was relegated to indoor work, I perfected my own Poor Man's semi-ZX Transmission conversion with the Polini 248.006 belt. It's intended for some Euro Derbi and Suzuki models, and is 1.5cm longer than stock so it'll ride higher on the back pulleys. I spent about an hour crafting a 1.05mm shim washer to make room for the 16.25mm width up front. Slow going with only rocks and sticks for tools...

As soon as someone - like, I dunno... with a new Scooter-Specific shop perhaps? - can put together some links to sources for the real thing, I'll do the tranny swap right. Hope it dries up in Deepinnaharta.