'94 Elite 50 Scooter - New to me, what am I getting into?

[frogpirate]

Last Sunday I swapped my Kayak for a '94 Elite 50P Scooter. I was also moving my mother-in-law and hosting my sister-in-law and her family, so maybe I didn't look at this thing close enough. It started right up, and I had a trailer load of MIL stuff to unload, so I did the deal.



In the 4 days since, I've realized this thing is rougher than I realized. I think every piece of plastic is cracked, broken or has tabs missing. I also realized the underside is filthy - greasy, grassy and in general a mess! However, it's not ALL bad news. This is the "moped" model that was originally limited to 25 mph, but on Tuesday I rode it with my Zumo GPS in my pocket and recorded a top speed of 34.9 MPH. I rode it to school that day (I'm almost 50, but am going back to school for a mid-life career change due to being laid off one too many time) and did not have any issues on the ~10 mile round trip. Sure, it was slow going up the big hill by the house (about 15 mph at the top) but I've pedal biked that hill, and I know how steep it is!

Today I was off, and working on a Poetry Explication (boring) for Lit class, and in between spent some time here and there in the garage. I pulled the drive side apart and this is what I found:



You can read about me cleaning it all up here: http://candyassllamas.com/NSA/FirstWork/index.php

Yuck. I bought the belts wheelman-111 had for sale (thanks!) and placed an order with Service Honda for some gaskets, turn signal lenses, and "stuff". I'm not sure if I want to try and find the plastic I need (mostly left side upper and lower rear) or just leave the back naked, or go full-on skully. I like the locked storage under the seat, and the idea of the forward storage, so I'm not sure I want to go full-on skully. First thing will be getting it cleaned up.

Oh, and for some reason, I'm giggling in my helmet every time I ride this thing. What is that all about?

Ken

[mr pibbs]

Its more fun than a kayak any day. Congrats

To help degrease Simple Green has worked well for me. Not abbrasive on the hands, so it is easy to work with without gloves. Depending on your weight 35ish isn't too bad for a top speed A couple things you could think about doing:

1. Clean the carb
Not sure if you have done this, but spray carb cleaner is cheap.

2. drain the tank - new gas
might not need this if you know it has been driven regularly

3. drain oil - put in Honda GN2
It's really about preventing carbon buildup under rings. Not a huge deal at first, but you never know.

4. New spark plug - BHA7HS
I am guessing you are running at wot for a while. You'll want this for temp sake

5. Check your exhaust for carbon build up and washer
i don't think it is restricted, but good to check

6.Get a performance variator
This can help you get more out of your transmission and will translate into better performance all the way around.

7. Consider getting 9:1 gears
Will slow down takeoff but give you a more workable top end. More trans work will be needed if you go this route.

I'm not sure you asked for any input, but i threw it out there anyway. Best of luck to you, and keep the pictures coming.

Cheers

[frogpirate]

Always looking for input. I do plan on cleaning the carb, I actually ordered some extra jets today as well just because, like I was there. 78, 80 & an 82. I'm not sure what's in it, because I did not want to get into the carb today.

I agree on the Simple Green, and that's what I used on the air box. When the sludge is thick, I think the brake cleaner works a little better, at least for a first pass, and I often finish up with SG.

IS GN2 synthetic or semi-synth? Is it better/worse/'bout the same as Belray Si7? That is what I was planning on getting, just because I read somewhere that it was good, but I'm honestly mostly clueless. The last 2-smoke oil I bought came from a shop with an Evinrude sign out front, and went into a '65 V-twin outboard.

One more question - is there any reason NOT to use semi-synthetic 10-40 in the gear part of the transmission? I use it exclusively in my big bike (Suzuki V-Strom 650) and would like to use the same in the scooter.

Finally, how do you clean carbon build up (if it's there) from an exhaust?

Ken

[mr pibbs]

There is really only one question i feel confident answering.

Finally, how do you clean carbon build up (if it's there) from an exhaust?

There are really two (or three) ways:
1. pour caustic soda into the exhaust, let it sit and flush it out. The over-the-counter equivalent would be something like drain-o.
2. Put the exhaust in a fire of sorts (fire pit, grill, etc.). Allow the exhaust to cool and then blow out any free carbon with air compressor
3. (this is for the over zealous) open up the exhuast, scrape out the gunk and weld her back together

Not always easy to tell if you "need" it, but on a 94 scooter it could give you a little better flow - restore some pep.

best of luck

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Quoth FrogPirate:

Oh, and for some reason, I'm giggling in my helmet every time I ride this thing. What is that all about?

I know just what you mean. I'll bet everybody here does. Laser-quick handling, surprisingly fast-for-a-fifty spunk, and the intoxicanting aroma of 2-stroke, methinks.

You inadvertently scored a much-prized Final (US) edition of Honda's 2-stroke learning curve. Look at that tranny cover and marvel at the inscription: AF16 E. Yes, that's the engine commonly called the SA50 or Dio here. The reason for its popularity is the relative abundance of go-slightly-faster parts for that engine. Several Forum members have sacrificed younger siblings and kidneys to get one, and you probably paid $75 for it... So it's a bit dirty. Boo-Freakin' Hoo!

Mr. Pibbs is spot-on in his advice. I would add two things:

1. While you have that carb off, check the main jet. I agree with Pibbs that it's likely been derestricted in the muffler and probably Variator too. Otherwise it wouldn't crack 30. If the Prevous Owner was a , he/she probably didn't change the jetting to cope with the increased heat that comes with increased output/RPM. Stock was a 68 for the S model. Don't run it hard if that's whatcha got. You're looking for at least a 78 to run stock, and 82-85 if you start making mods. *1
B. I'm pretty sure you're looking for an NGK plug number BR7 HSA or BPR7 HIX if you're an Iridium fan. Check with Honda-san. (your dealer...)

BTW your belt case looks pretty normal. Note the areas below the seals appear to be dry. That's good. That greasy black sludge appears to be just the belt crud - uncleaned in x,000 miles. Examine the crank and axle seals closely but it doesn't look to me like you have a problem.

Welcome!

*1: And you will make mods, trust me. (a usable/reliable 55-60MPH would require less than $500. ) Talk to Toast or Taz.

[frogpirate]

You inadvertently scored a much-prized Final (US) edition of Honda's 2-stroke learning curve. Look at that tranny cover and marvel at the inscription: AF16 E. Yes, that's the engine commonly called the SA50 or Dio here. The reason for its popularity is the relative abundance of go-slightly-faster parts for that engine. Several Forum members have sacrificed younger siblings and kidneys to get one, and you probably paid $75 for it... So it's a bit dirty. Boo-Freakin' Hoo!

Not quite inadvertently - I did my research. The other scoot I was looking at was a '85 Aero, but I found out the AF16 motor was more desirable and went after it. Oh, and add a zero to your number there I'm afraid. It was a nice 'yak.



I'll be chasing plugs, oil and such tomorrow, as well as more brake cleaner. I probably won't get it back together until the weekend, as we're hosting my sis-in-law and family for the next few days. They leave Saturday morning though, so I'll be scootering again in no time.

[evilone]

Forget the yak, Nice car

[frogpirate]

Forget the yak, Nice car

Thanks. '73 Dodge Dart "Swinger!", 318 V-8 AT. Gone as of 2 weeks ago, and the red bike ('03 Aprilia Tuono) is gone as well. Had to down-size the toy box a bit after being unemployed for so long (since Jan 15th). Not whining though, I still have my '08 V-Strom and the awesome Elite!

Added some rally swag that came in the mail today:



Here is the info. about the rally:

http://www.utah1088.com/TenInTenRally.pdf

No, I'm not really going to ride the Elite 10K miles. That is what the V-Strom is for.

[frogpirate]

Well, I finally got my parts in from Service Honda:


Oh, SHINY!! Among other things, I got an extra key blank, which I took up and had ground this afternoon. I now have 2 spare keys: two genuine Honda keys and one generic one. I hate only having one key to any vehicle!

I put the new rear turn signal lenses on, after replacing the yellow bulbs with new clear ones. I forgot to order screws (the lenses were missing on this bike) but #8 x 1 1/4" pan-head SS tap screws work fine instead of the 4mm x 30mm tap screws shown on the fiche.

I started working on the plastics a little. I'm not sure how well this is going to work..but it's worth a try. The tab at the top of the battery cover (I'm not sure what else to call it) was broken off. I glued it back on using purple primer and "universal" pipe cement. I haven't been too happy with how the universal cement works - it's fine on PVC, but much less so on ABS. Anyway, I wanted to reinforce it, so I mixed up chopped-fiberglass Bondo and filled in behind the tab:


Another view here:


OK, I need some help. I noticed the other night when I rode to school (about 5 miles) that I had OIL dripping from what looks like the air box. I noticed when I had the air box off, there was some oil dripping out of the carb. I'm thinking I need to adjust the oil-injection pump cable. Thoughts?

Finally, how important is it to drain the old oil before changing brands/types? I'll probably just drain it; I'm going to tear it apart tomorrow so I can check the hoses & tank or leaks, and it wouldn't be a big deal to just drain and clean the tank then. I got BelRay Si7 two-smoke oil. Does anyone know what size the oil-supply line is? Injector to carb line? And recommendations for what kind of line to run?

Ken

[dem0nk1d]

You wanted to know what your getting yourself into. Scooters are like cocaine they keep you wanting more.

The rubber gasket around the kicker is some what optional in my book. Also nothing a little carb cleaner wouldn't clean up on the inside of the case. Also do you know if the Varaitor has a plate behind it with three screws? If so remove it, and you'll gain a little more topend. Also doesn't hurt to remove the exhaust to see if it has the welded in washer, which can be drilled out using a stepper drill bit.

http://www.scootertherapy.com/Eliteclutchpage.html

[frogpirate]

You wanted to know what your getting yourself into. Scooters are like cocaine they keep you wanting more.

The rubber gasket around the kicker is some what optional in my book. Also nothing a little carb cleaner wouldn't clean up on the inside of the case. Also do you know if the Varaitor has a plate behind it with three screws? If so remove it, and you'll gain a little more topend. Also doesn't hurt to remove the exhaust to see if it has the welded in washer, which can be drilled out using a stepper drill bit.

http://www.scootertherapy.com/Eliteclutchpage.html

You mean like this?



But I'm getting ahead of myself. First I needed a spot to work on the scooter. A couple of milk crates, and old computer desk top and a little safety wire and wala!



I even swept the floor! This is about as clean as my garage gets I'm afraid.

One thing I love about the scooter is that I can just herk it up onto the stand myself. I can't do that with my V-Strom!



Here is the oil leak I was talking about:



I just cleaned that cover <2 weeks and <50 miles ago.

Air cleaner spigot, you can see the oil pooled. I cleaned this out recently as well:



It's a little goopy in here. Boy have I scraped my share of this kind of grunge (I've owend Chevy's. ) I was glad I read about how hard the wheel nut can be to get off. I heated it up with my heat gun, sprayed it with penetrating oil and heated it again. I stuck a pry-bar through the wheel, and used a 1/2" breaker bar and a 7/8" socket and (with a fair amount of grunting) it came right off. I'm going to paint the wheel once I get the tire off (If I can remember where the heck I put my tire irons!)



I just checked this tire, and I swear it was OK. That stripe down the middle is a wear stripe. I'm guessing it was OLD. Or my a** is fat.



Time to fix that exhaust. Grab hole saw and handy dandy 1/2 Dewalt drill "Hey BUBBA, hold my BEER while I drill this out!"



Opps, I was just a smidge off-center.



That spigot's not that important, is it? I'm hoping the new seal will, uh, seal it. If not, it will go to my buddy who (hopefully) has mad skilz with a welder and can rebuild it for me. OK, that's all for tonight. Let me know if I'm posting too many pictures.

Ken

[turtle13]

Also do you know if the Varaitor has a plate behind it with three screws? If so remove it, and you'll gain a little more topend.
http://www.scootertherapy.com/Eliteclutchpage.html

i never thought about this, but that is probably not a bad idea, in theory this would allow the variator to its full amount when at high revs...
the grease cover fit on the back of my keli when i got it, so i just slapped it on figuring it would help keep everything together during assy/dis-assy...

[bakaracer]

Hey Ken before you ride that bike,make sure you up jet the carb.since you drilled out the exhaust,the engine is going to need more gas.If not its going to run lean and you will seize the engine.If planing on using the stock airbox,punch out the tab that covers up one of the holes on the inlet of the airbox cover.upjet to a 85 or 88 jet.

[workdog]

It's a little goopy in here. Boy have I scraped my share of this kind of grunge (I've owend Chevy's. ) I was glad
Ken

That made my morning!

[evilone]

Let me know if I'm posting too many pictures

Pics are good, honestly i've always heard about that exhaust washer but never saw one, cool to see a pic of it.