Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

Meatball wrote:How do you plan on changing the pilot?

If anything, there is this:

http://hondaspree.net/wiki/index.php5?t ... ix_at_idle

OK, so now that oil seems to be addressed, air readings have been, I think it is safe to assume, addressed. We know where to head with them anyways, we haven't locked it down yet. So now I'm thinking HEAT AND STABILITY.

A stock Spree, if properly tuned, can do WOT all day in some cases. But for MY USE, as was pointed out a couple pages back, the BBK will rarely, if EVER see very many WOT runs. Oh it will just ONCE on the open road. I told the kid whos Spree was sold at a farm implement auction to me and is now being transformed, that he will get to be the first, and probably only one who will get to see how fast it actually goes. I won't let him do it though till after the BBK is broken in on maybe 100-150 miles. I'm gonna mount a camera with GPS Speed displayed and let Jasper give it all it can take till it gets it's top speed, then bring it on back and see.

I'm like 330lbs, Jasper is around 180-190 I'd say. That's about the weight limit on the Spree anyway right?

But anyways, If you look close in a couple of videos, you see I have a CHT/Tach display mounted. It's always been there, we just haven't set it up yet.

Yes, it only goes up to 304, but what it's for is to watch at 280. This is what I'll be looking at through the break in period.

I'm thinking for this next set of runs, I might bring my daughter and let her be a helper and take temps with the laser, and were gonna get the tach/cht gauge running as well.

I sincerely don't think it would be wise to run WOT with the MLM, but it IS a very useful and beneficial pipe to have. What I wanna figure out next run, is where can I keep that throttle at and stay reasonably cool?

I mean WOT on a normal Spree, and a BBK one, no biggy, I can see that.. But when that pipe gives you the power to rap out at 11,000 RPM, I think with great power comes great responsibility. Just because you CAN do it, doesn't mean that you should do it, and it doesn't say how long you can do it either..

If you have airleaks that cause temps to rise at wot they still mess your bore up over time.

In this next video, you will see a LEAN ON OIL condition. This is the BBK being ran with 100% fuel in the tank and just the pump providing lubrication. I want you to compare stoich values here as well, and you'll get a longer, closer look at where I drilled the holes. In this run we both expected the bike to need lubrication, better be safe then sorry, so for WOT attempts... forget it, we are just testing values through different comfortable ranges that won't heat things up too much. Now when you compare THIS run, to the other video with the same 3 holes but with 128:1 in the tank, you can see in the stoich, how much adding that bit of extra lubrication helps the stoich. If the pump, by some oddball chance, is doing 32:1, then what is being fed to the BBK at MAX, is 40:1

So for anybody keeping score and wanna delete the pump and do premix, the most safest, reasonable range that seems to work, is 40:1. The most oil you wanna premix, might very well indeed be 32:1 though. Here is my evidence.. I went 64:1 in the tank first round and saturated out. If the pump was running 32:1 at that point, I was in fact, running at 24:1 oil. I had only ASSUMED at that point that the pump will put out a range of 70:1-50:1. The math on that works out pretty good if the pump does 70, but if it actually does more, then you can saturate real quick with an added 64:1

But anyways.. I think this video does answer the question of can the BBK be ran on just gas? At this point, I want to give that a resounding NO! Stoich changes alone should tell you that you need more lubrication at this point when the 2 videos are compared.

The video with 3 holes and extra oil gives us all around best stoich with that extra lubrication.

Here is what it gets you without the extra lubrication:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bAQYmBILOE

BTW, just a little quick sidemath. If you feel confident that the pump is putting out 32:1 and want to remain at 32:1 with extra oil, you want 96:1 added to 1 gallon of gas. This is 1.3oz, or roughly 40ml. 4 ounces will yield you 3 gallons of it. This might be an even SAFER range to stay in at this point. But, I ain't gonna waste the premix I have now just to make up more premix. I'll test that some other time. What I'm saying though, at this point I might very well need even MORE lubrication then what I am providing and THAT TOO might help the stoich here. So I'm thinking maybe 10ml most to the tank with the 128 already in, might kick me down closer to a 32:1 mark?? Minus the fuel we have burned?? UGH... I'll pour in some 96:1 fuel next fill up.

When are you gonna inspect the bore?

After that camera I ordered from that link here on the forums gets here. Then I'll record a video of the inside and we'll see how much I've actually beaten it up.

Looking at that write-up about drilling the pilot circuit, it seems risky to attempt. Youre talking such small tolerances and ZERO ability to change it back if it doesn't work.

At the bottom the quote is : I have not ran this carb yet But I will. I have full confidence it will work, just look at the pics why wouldn't it. This could be the answer to the Sprees' pesky issues when the air box is removed and for BBK owners.

This write-up was done in 2011 and its an attempt to remedy the "pesky issues when the air box is removed and for BBK owners". Seems like this has been a problem for quite some time now. However, I cant find anything following up this guy's attempt on drilling the pilot. No idea if it made it better, worse or even ran at all.

I know right!! I'm thinking if I wanted to play around with that, it would be best to try it on a different carb. That's a point of no return hack. The airbox is an easy fix if I need to go back, even with the 3 holes in it, just tape em up. Still up in the air about that lid though. If stoich is much better with a bigger jet, that airbox might be in a more comfortable place with it all, and the added stoich it helps reduce will help keep enough gas to spare for power and cooling. This can turn into better pickup or even longer WOT runs or both.

Speaking of the airbox, and getting back to that for a second.. Ultraliner said he poked 2 20mm holes, and can plug one off and it still runs the same and I believe him. I can't compare stoich for 2 holes with and without oil very easy because we never tried 1 or 2 holes only WITH extra oil. Holes 1 and 2 were both done while oil was lean and stoichs were compared between those 2 like that.

Here is where it gets a little interesting... Stoich for 2 holes at 3/8th inch (roughly 2 10mm holes), was actually better then 3 holes. At this point, without testing it yet, that makes 2 holes with extra oil the winner in stoich.. That makes Ultraliner's suggestion of just 1 20mm hole.... plausible.

But anyway, here's the video, compare and decide for yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRKPHh8e7uI

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Is your goal to stabilize the stoich throughout the entire pass? It looked like you had it close on the video you posted just before this one. It hovered around 13 give or take a couple 10ths.

This one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TybDRKmT7Fo

It only ran up to about 35mph and 9000rpm's but it was the most stable stoich Ive seen so far. Even at wot it kept about 13.1-ish. What was wrong with that?

Im very curious to know if it can hold wot for an extended period without burning up. I know your Son may not run full tilt much (or at all) but I can pretty much guarantee that the rest of us certainly will!

For my own use, the goal is to find best stoich for cruise speed. The higher gears will mean less revs for constant throttle runs, the better stoich means it has power to spare. 20mph tops is the speed limit round these parts till the bridge. Ideal stoich at 20mph is what I want. We can all see the shift and kick happen right around 20mph in most all the videos, we know this is where the mainjet is probably taking it, and the MLM starts doing it's work. On a Spree without those gears, they probably feel that MLM boost around 12-15. In my case, that lag and kick at 20 with the higher gears, suits my needs better.. Otherwise, be ready for a somewhat disappointing pickup. But then, a well tuned BBK should be able to pick up that slack. The Spree wants to growl, just hasn't cleared it's throat enough yet.

Here is testing with just 1 hole.. it was a bust right from the start.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABO-pa-s_kU
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Looks like I have some video watching catch up to do later tonight!

Good to read you had slightly more positive results with one of your 3 airbox holes covered up too, consistency in findings is a good thing!

I think I asked awhile back(cant remember)but are you running with the main that came supplied with Taz's kit? I think it's #90?

This is gonna be the last video I have for now. Wish I could have shown you readings with lid on, no holes, no oil. Stoich was actually better doing that then it was with just the 1 hole, but of course, TOO RICH can't do nothing without more air. But looks like I messed up the recording... no biggy, it was short and we just were looking at base, no real revving.

But anyway, here's NO LID, NO OIL. This is where Pod Filter starts to hint... come to the dark side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iM2bquLOv8

NOTE: In this video, tryin' to get that dyno reading correctly. Couldn't remember where he set it before. We have determined that videos Test 2 & 3 were off on the rpm reading because of it.
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