Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

Greetings:

I have yet to lay hands on a Ruckus variator, but Werx once swore by it.

I have some reservations, on the face of this issue. The 4-stroke Ruck engine likely has a power curve very different from our beloved 2-smokes. You'd think Honda-san would carve roller channels ideally suited to the wider, flatter torque curve of the OHC engine, which wouldn't necessarily work all that well with our peakier, narrower powerband. Placebo effect can be powerful indeed. If one goes to all that work, then by Golly we'll find a way to like it better. Whether it is better or not.

Does anyone know the stock gear ratio??

I'm trying to understand the ratios...i WAS under the impression that the higher, the better (top speed wise)...

but now that i've been looking at DayWot's stuff...it seems he sells 3 different ratios; 8.2:1 , 9.1:1 , and 9.8:1 He also says that they will increase top speed by 7-8mph, 4-5mph, and 3-4mph respectively...so wouldnt i want the 8.2:1 ratio? that way i would get a 7-8mph gain in top speed??

On a slight tangent, do i need to have one of the gears pressed on to a shaft? I read/heard that somewhere...i think maybe on youtube... If so where would be the best place to have that done??

Thanks again!
~Shiba

Let's muddy up the water some more on vendors. Another thread triggered a vendor I was trying to remember on ebay: autotech355, has a lot of Taiwan items for Dio type motors, AF18E primarily but applicable for AF16E. Prices are pretty decent.

Check this one out.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... MEWAX%3AIT

Greetings:

Your 2000 should have a 12:1 reduction. (unless the P models have their own unique trans ratios.) That simply means it takes 12 spins at the clutch shaft to turn the rear wheel once. There is confusion from the term "higher", usually taken to mean numerically lower. I like to use the term "taller", as in "7:1 is a taller ratio than 9:1. Like a steeper hill to climb, it requires more power to take full advantage of the speed potential. (See Bear's post beneath mine) I had a 1984 V65 Sabre that reached 157 (indicated) in 5th gear, but dropped to 145 in 6th, lacking the power to reach redline in top gear.

.so wouldnt i want the 8.2:1 ratio? that way i would get a 7-8mph gain in top speed?

Your car is faster in third gear than in second. On the roads you plan to ride, would you like to be in 3rd all the time?

Thanks to the clutch and variator, it's not exactly that simple, but the more you focus on top speed, the more you sacrifice in acceleration. Plus very tall gears may never allow the engine to reach its stride.

Running 8:1 is feasible but will require big power to restore acceptable take-off from the stop signals. Flash II at 65 cc could barely pull its 7.83:1 ratio to the top of the variator in favorable winds, and was underwhelming below 15 MPH. I never got to complete the variator tuning to extract its best. For me 9:1 is the best compromise in an engine like ours. With the right pipe, big speed returns with higher engine RPM; This is the other way to make for high top speeds.

Honda dealers charge 30 minutes' labor to press on the gears. If they break it they generally make good. My guys had to freeze the shaft and then heat the gear to press it off despite their big press.. It's that tough.

shiba wrote:Does anyone know the stock gear ratio??

I'm trying to understand the ratios...i WAS under the impression that the higher, the better (top speed wise)...

but now that i've been looking at DayWot's stuff...it seems he sells 3 different ratios; 8.2:1 , 9.1:1 , and 9.8:1 He also says that they will increase top speed by 7-8mph, 4-5mph, and 3-4mph respectively...so wouldnt i want the 8.2:1 ratio? that way i would get a 7-8mph gain in top speed??

On a slight tangent, do i need to have one of the gears pressed on to a shaft? I read/heard that somewhere...i think maybe on youtube... If so where would be the best place to have that done??

Thanks again!
~Shiba

The higher gear ratio will achieve a higher top speed if you have the horsepower to pull those higher gears. Since this is a small (50cc) engine and fairly gutless, lower gears will achieve a higher top speed in some cases, probably most. My 1999 Ford Escort GT is faster in 4th gear than in 5th because the engine with 125hp, lacks the needed horsepower to pull the higher gears. Hence it is faster with a lower gear ratio.

alright, makes sense...

i'm wondering then if i should get something "higher" then 9:1, perhaps 8:1?

i know you said that i will need big power....BUT and on to yet another question..

my scooter has over 7000 miles on it, most of which were not put on by me...is there a certain time when it would be best to do a big bore kit. I know you said that doesnt help the reliability any, but how long do scooters last and remain reliable? I guess i'm trying to ask if i have reasonable life out of my motor as is, or if it would be more worth while to just upgrade to a big bore kit.

If not, then i'll just get the 9:1 gears for 57$

Tires i've found at BikeBandit.com for 42$ + shipping ; if anyone knows of somewhere else to get them @ a better deal, please let me know!
I think i'll do the OKO var. for now, i can always get the keli to make better I assume that i should change the belt also while i'm at it??

Any ideas where i can get an 82 or 85 jet for our carbs?? i dont really know how to upjet them myself, nor do i feel comfortable doing so...


Thanks again guys!!!

Greetings:

Ax your Honda dealer to search 99101-187-0850 for the 85. -0880 for the 88. If you can distinguish a Phillips from a small flat screwdriver, you can change the jet.

A bore kit alone won't suffice for 8:1. You'll need an exhaust and perhaps a carb and more tuning. At 7K miles, I'd check for good compression before deciding. The stock engine's good for 45+ with 9:1s and retains decent accel with 7g rollers in your new OKO. Yes a new belt would be a good idea.

Motorcyclesuperstore.com has good tire prices too. Pirelli SL26 90/90s work for me. Nice tread pattern for ~20.

If i were to do a bore kit, i would most defiantly upgrade the exhaust and probably the carb as well. I'm gonna have my friend bring his compression tester over so we can check.

Any reason i should get the 90/90 tires over the 3.00x10?? My stock ones are 3.00x10, will 90/90 fit on the rims??

Thanks again!! I'm about to start buying some stuff!! Dont worry!!!!! hehe

~Shiba

shiba wrote:If i were to do a bore kit, i would most defiantly upgrade the exhaust and probably the carb as well. ~Shiba

Depends on which kit you get. If you just get the 65cc kit, exhaust and carb will do okay, but you will need to upjet. Going to 80cc is borderline on needing more. I've got one on a 2001 SR and doing fine with stock exhaust and carb. Granted, it might could do more, but it's mighty powerful as is.

I would probably stick with a Polini kit.. something like this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/POLINI-7 ... 2655wt_939)

Greetings:

An enviable kit indeed is the Corsa. Venerated and untouchable for many of us cheapskates. Burnt_Toast installed one at one point chronicled somewhere on the Forum.

Only trouble with the Corsa is that it's pretty much at the limit of what the drive train and cooling system can handle in terms of output. It requires the biggest and baddest (also loudest...) of intake and exhaust hardware to extract all of its potential. Frankly I've always thought it was a bit much for a daily rider. If you get the jetting wrong you can turn it into a $300 lump of molten metal pretty quickly.

The more conservative Contesta from Polini may be a better option for travel in school zones and genteel suburban neighborhoods. Lots of positive reports on the 66cc kit from the same supplier have recently made the Forum. So far I'm having success with the Nikasil 78cc kit too. Not a lot of dirt on the more affordable Ruima 48-51 mm kits, but some have installed them. Maybe consider a cheaper, less on-the-edge kit for your first build?

So something close to this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/66cc-BIG ... arQ5fParts)
?

Where did you get your 78cc kit from?

Any reason i should get the 90/90 tires over the 3.00x10?? My stock ones are 3.00x10, will 90/90 fit on the rims??

Any one know the answer? I'm hopefully going to buy some by the end of today...

Thanks again guys!!
~Shiba

Greetings:

Yes the Pirelli SL26s 90/90x10 fit both ends just fine. The stock rims aren't the ideal width, but the profile is still reasonable. A Metropolitan 2.15 Tubeless rear rim will mount right up to yours, adding the convenience and relative safety of running sanstube. WARNING: Do not run tubeless on a stock rim.

Jesse1234 is selling that exact kit brand new. DayWOT also sold me my Nikasil 49mm/78cc. So far so good.

this may seem like a dumb question, but if not rune tubless, obviously i'd want to run w/ a tube. so....

1) do the stock wheels have a tube?
1.1) and if so could i just use that with those tires?
2) if not, is there one tube that is better then the others? or will any cheap one do fine? also, where would you recommend getting them?


Thanks!
~Shiba

Greetings:

1) do the stock wheels have a tube?

Yes.

1.1) and if so could i just use that with those tires?

Probably if they're not looking old and "ozonated". Rubber shows faint surface cracks, replace now.

2) if not, is there one tube that is better then the others? or will any cheap one do fine? also, where would you recommend getting them

?
I got mine at MotorcycleSuperstore with the tires. You can get the kind where the valve stem is kinked 90 degrees to facilitate pumpage and checkage. Otherwise there's precious little room between the rim and the hub.