Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

novs86 wrote:BUT....They still are not manufactured with the same quality as a Honda, Yamaha, Vespa ..etc...etc..

For this reason I assume but could be wrong that most people on here dislike them. (I think it's a warranted reason)

Not only is quality an issue, but don't forget parts (OEM and aftermarket) availability.

hollister_boy wrote:No no they are nothing like a honda, but this one i have has held up alright seams me and my friend take it on the ORV
trails.
Its got 3500 ish Miles on it and its a 2008 but only rode in summer 2009, i bought it new. I have a print out of it new but i have to find it and scan it,

More pictures will come soon that are better quality.

I can agree that any honda or yamaha scooter is always a better scooter, but i sold my 84 spree and a $2,000+ scooter just wasnt and option to me.

the origional volkswagon beetle was still in production untill 1998, but not in germany. they were made in mexico, but the parts are all the same, the engeneering unchanged. it's still a vw.


the gy6 IS A HONDA. CHINA HAD NO PART IN THE DESIGN. THERE ARE ALOT OF AFTERMARKET PARTS AVAILABLE. anyone who says GY6 clones are nothing like a honda needs to do their homework, starting with the definition of "clone".


IF IT LOOKS LIKE A DUCK, AND IT QUACKS LIKE A DUCK, WHAT THE * DO YOU THINK IT IS????!??!!!?

Greetings:

At last count, there were something like one thousand, nine hundred and fifty manufacturers of scooters and parts in the great nation of China. See Here. It's a safe bet that some are better than others.

Honda-san's designs were the result of imagination, innovation, dedication and the hard-earned experience and work of hammering metal into shapes that produced the desired function. Then they start over with the next generation, learning from the mistakes and shortcomings of the previous one. Particularly in the critical areas like cranks, pistons, connecting rods and rings, (Soichiro got started by producing the best quality piston rings in existence in his day...) Honda's materials and machining specs are a match for the best in the world.

Chinese designs are produced by the shameless reverse-engineering of a dismantled Honda product. Unencumbered by details like patent rules, they take a part, make a mold out of it, and then cast a new part - presumably identical to the original. Now that takes some skill - I couldn't do it - but it does not carry the merit and pride associated with the original. It also side-steps the very expensive process of development, and allows them to sell an outwardly similar product without the capital costs of designing and engineering the original. That defines "Clone". But is it just the same? Is it really as good?

The better Chinese companies probably use good materials. The wannabe's probably melt down whatever's handy and hope for the best. Maybe some companies have proud people experienced in the Dark Art of casting. Maybe some don't. Many have described the quality of the plastic parts on Chinese scooters as abysmal. What makes anyone think the metal the poorer companies use is comparatively any better?

Now I'm old enough to recall Honda's earliest exports to Canada. While the competition then wasn't exactly stellar in quality, Honda's was only fair at best in comparison. But while the competition didn't improve, Honda surely did. By the mid-60s Honda had bikes that could outperform and outlast the day's Triumphs and BSAs at half the displacement and perhaps less than half the price.

Another thing is certain. The Chinese want to be successful. As soon as they appreciate that quality brings return customers, they will bring forth better quality products, if they haven't already started. I'll bet there are already some decent products hitting our shores from China, but being "Chinese", they just aren't yet recognized as such. As the losers fold and disappear, there may remain a "Big Four" or Big Ten from Chinese manufacturers that will surely give Japan headaches as cash-strapped customers opt for the cheaper options from China that are in fact "good enough".

However until they produce some real innovation - a scooter that meets my 50cc needs comparable to the new SH 150 or the upcoming PCX 125, I personally plan to scrimp and save until I can afford to stick with the Original.

Spreetard wrote:

hollister_boy wrote:No no they are nothing like a honda, but this one i have has held up alright seams me and my friend take it on the ORV
trails.
Its got 3500 ish Miles on it and its a 2008 but only rode in summer 2009, i bought it new. I have a print out of it new but i have to find it and scan it,

More pictures will come soon that are better quality.

I can agree that any honda or yamaha scooter is always a better scooter, but i sold my 84 spree and a $2,000+ scooter just wasnt and option to me.

the origional volkswagon beetle was still in production untill 1998, but not in germany. they were made in mexico, but the parts are all the same, the engeneering unchanged. it's still a vw.


the gy6 IS A HONDA. CHINA HAD NO PART IN THE DESIGN. THERE ARE ALOT OF AFTERMARKET PARTS AVAILABLE. anyone who says GY6 clones are nothing like a honda needs to do their homework, starting with the definition of "clone".


IF IT LOOKS LIKE A DUCK, AND IT QUACKS LIKE A DUCK, WHAT THE * DO YOU THINK IT IS????!??!!!?

hello from Manton Michigan, Its 10 miles north of Cadillac if you haven't herd of it.

Yes Yes there are much much much more original and aftermarket parts for Chinese scooters,
from what i can see much much much more than aftermarket honda parts.

Rather than writing a novel on why a Chinese scooter is a POS, just ride one!

Wheelman tried to put it nicely , but I won't.

The plastics used for them are cheap. The metals used are cheap. The fit and fininsh is bad.

I don't give a crap what kind of GY6 clone engine is used, they use junk moters that don't last.

I have rode many and they are hands down no where near the quality of a Honda... and that's the truth period!

novs86 wrote:Rather than writing a novel on why a Chinese scooter is a POS, just ride one!

Wheelman tried to put it nicely , but I won't.

no need to be nice, but...

novs86 wrote:The plastics used for them are cheap. The metals used are cheap. The fit and fininsh is bad.

Spreetard wrote: gy6 powered scoots CAN be very nice and reliable. the problem is often the quality controll (or lack thereof) in the chineese factories. some brands of gy6 clones are better than others, most all of them use very cheap plastic for the body panels, but replacement panels are cheap accordingly.

uhh...
notice we're kind of all on the same page here... to a point.
i'd never buy a china scoot new. i"d gladly buy an "older" one with a few thousand miles on it for cheap. i'd ride the crap out of it, but the resale value is crap after the first big bug you hit cracks the body, or the kickstand gremlins knock it over. lack of quality control. cheaply made.
interchangability with honda input and output shaft diameter and spline count. and variator. and clutch. ramp plate, rollers... fair to say there's a few similarities.
*, we're nabbing the front disks off one for trafficzamz's elite.
while it is very true that honda builds a superior product, the dio is superior to the lowly nq50, but we have information relevant to making them work a little better. often the variator tuning is horrible, and the intake choked down to nothing.

why not just re-direct it to the non-honda section. no need to rip on it. this is one of the best 50cc moped resources on the internet, and there's room for a * cousin like wildfire here and there. it'd be nice to compile a little real world info on which china scoots don't suck, ya'know???

Greetings:

Pugnacious Novs86 challenges:

Rather than writing a novel on why a Chinese scooter is a POS, just ride one!

What better place to wax philosophical than "General Chit-Chat"? But that wharen't no novel. My novel will feature much more sex and violence, possibly simultaneous.

I really like Spreetard's idea:

why not just re-direct it to the non-honda section. no need to rip on it. this is one of the best 50cc moped resources on the internet, and there's room for a * cousin like wildfire here and there. it'd be nice to compile a little real world info on which china scoots don't suck, ya'know???

I believe the list of Non-POS Chinese scooters will grow longer with time. I do not believe that it's fair to make a blanket condemnation of any product just because it's labeled "Made in China", however common bad experience with their products may be. Just because there are a lot of bad Chinese scooters out there does not prove that there are NO good ones.

One last point to ponder: If a lot of Chinese brands are barely able to run/last in stock form, how should one expect them to respond to Performance mods? Sure there's a good choice of "Performance Parts", but are they a good idea to install?

That said, I still disapprove of the business practices of some manufacturers - profiting from the sweat of the brows of others - and still promise to boycott any product that's reverse-engineered without paying royalties to the originator of the design. However that's my personal view, and I'm not trying to impose it on anyone else.

novs86 wrote:"You can't polish a turd"

Actually...http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbus ... -turd.html

The biggest problem I have had with chinese motor products is the lack of any locking device, like nuts, washers, loctite...so bolts will be lost and you will start to shake to pieces

eliteguy50 wrote:

novs86 wrote:"You can't polish a turd"

Actually...http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbus ... -turd.html

That's so funny.

china scoots arent that bad once you do a nice PDI http://x1scooters.com/pdi.html
i mean after all the motors are constanly in use in the ruckus world gy6 swaps are very popular.

i have no valuable input

eliteguy50 wrote:

novs86 wrote:"You can't polish a turd"

Actually...http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbus ... -turd.html

The biggest problem I have had with chinese motor products is the lack of any locking device, like nuts, washers, loctite...so bolts will be lost and you will start to shake to pieces

Your right I guess you can.

Great show by the way, I did see that episode.