Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

Greetings:

I suppose it's possible to get 8.9:1 gears mathematically (as long as Wheelman ain't doin' the math... ) but I doubt you'd notice any difference in a 0.1 proportionate step. You are correct that 7.1 is a hair taller than 7.2. The number refers to the spin count at one end of the assembly to achieve a full spin at the output end.

In any case unless you have a complete machine fabrication shop, we're limited to the commercially available choices for a particular scooter. In the case of the AF 16 going down from 9.1:1, this is 8.4:1. You can find a MouseWheels (now there's a guy who knows math... ) spreadsheet showing all the choices in the Tech Docs someplace.

Theoretically the taller gears exact a penalty in acceleration unless compensated for in the belt driven variator system. Also theoretically, they can go faster, but the theory presumes sufficient power to achieve the same RPM at the clutch shaft. Without sufficient power, taller gears potentially can slow you down.

Chalay Murphy wrote:what is the next step down from 9:1 gears

10:1 if you can source them.

wheelman, u know your sh*t about elites dont u
thanks bro.
now if u could just tell me how to post pics on here?
and disk brakes????? is it possible on a elite? is it a big hassle?
I OWE ALL U GUYS BIGTIME!!!!!
(NONE of my friends even know the difference between a 4 stroke and a 2 stroke) besides my moped mechanic friend
SO i hope you guys can understand why i got so many d*** queestion

sanjuro wrote:

Chalay Murphy wrote:what is the next step down from 9:1 gears

10:1 if you can source them.

10:1 would be CRAZY on the lowend but would actually decrease my topend a lil bit (I THINK) but im trying to gain 10mph on the topend without losing ANY of the low end..(OK maybe just a lil loss in lowend is TOLERABLE if it must be that way)

How to post pictures

http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewto ... t+pictures

Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:

Theoretically the taller gears exact a penalty in acceleration unless compensated for in the belt driven variator system. Also theoretically, they can go faster, but the theory presumes sufficient power to achieve the same RPM at the clutch shaft. Without sufficient power, taller gears potentially can slow you down.

So my 72cc aluminum malossi mhr replica bore isnt powerful enough for good acceleration (good acceleration=75% of the lowend i already have) with 8.4 gears installed????
(I dont mean to come accross as a smartass)
wheelman if u dont mind can u speak in "english" when u answer my questions
(belt driver variator, clutch shaft) what language is that????? Afghanistani?????? LOL
I BARELY passed my GED (pure dog luck) so yah......
K RITE ON

u da man fishman!!!!!
i hope this works!!!!


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LADAMERCY it worked
ill put up a better exhaust pipe photo soon as i get sum new film (if u zoom in u can sorta see the PG on the pipe)
all the v8 pipes i see around town are made by companys ive never heard of
i dont know alot about mopeds but i do know that PG pipes are top of the line for everyday use and RELIABIILITY
i SWEAR by PG when it comes to exhausts

Greetings:

Quoth C. M:

wheelman if u dont mind can u speak in "english" when u answer my questions
(belt driver variator, clutch shaft) what language is that????? Afghanistani?????? LOL

Sorry for my poor English. I'll try to be clearer.
I've never installed an MHR, but don't doubt it's powerful enough to push 8.4:1 gears if it's tuned well enough. However even a worked Corvette won't be as fast accelerating if you have to start off in 3rd gear. Same for going from stock (12:1) to 8.4:1 gears.

Like the chain on your old Schwinn 10-speed, the Variator, belt and driven pulleys reduce your overall gear ratio by the same amount, 2.4:1 at best, whether you have stock or 8.4:1 gears. You're still coming off the line with a taller overall ratio, so you won't accelerate as fast unless you modify that belt-drive.

Enter the ZX transmission: It has a larger rear pulley diameter, so your belt-drive reduction goes to maybe 3.0:1 off the line, with little downside on top speed. An upside, actually, if you also swap the front pulleys for something a little bigger too. Enter the Ruckus or Aftermarket-for-Ruckus oversized variators.

I BARELY passed my GED (pure dog luck) so yah......

I didn't do so well in school myself some years. Couldn't see the reason to pay attention. Learning comes easier when it's something that matters to you. There are lots of informative links in Tech Docs and Advanced Tech to study. You might just want to read a few and see if you don't learn something now.

sorry for all the posts guys
imma sum it all up short and quick
GOAL: 60mph (my current setup tops out at about 50mph)
QUESTION What gearing will i need to acheive my goal?
NOTE I want to keep atleast 75% of the lowend power i already have, while gaining 10mph top end
(if that makes any sense)
REMINDER i MUCH prefer Lowend over topend
PS i got all the lowend ill ever need, so im willling to give up a little bit in order to acheive 60mph

So, just go to 8.4:1 gears and you should be pretty set. That's the easy/cheapest way, and if its not enough, or acceleration is too badly destroyed, experiment with zx trans components.

about the disk brake mookie has one posted on here for sale jump on that

Only way to know is to try, I'd say go for the 8.4:1, can always swap back. Any low end you lose can probably be regained with some trans tuning.
For a disc you are going to need some work, I'd say if you don't know someone that has done it (probly Nigel/Stretch/Mikey/Keegs) don't bother. I do have a dd50 front end to do it with though. Going a different route cause I'd prefer a more stockish stem setup.

As far as moped gangs, you don't like cruising with friends? * kids on brand new rides... I dunno who that would be.

wheelman now your speaking my language LOL
yah im dying to learn how to work on elites
after hearing your wisdom im leaning towards buying the 8.4 gears (it should be somewhere in the middle of the 7.2 and 9:1 as far as lowend power) right???
i know that a machine is required in order to change the gears, that in mind if i dont like the 8.4 gears once its installed can i put back in my 9:1 gears or will i have to buy a new 9:1 gear?
do u think i would reach 60mph with a ministroker with 9:1 gears?
put it this way, if u had $250 lying around, with my current setup WHAT WOULD U DO (ministroker or the 8.4 gears)
which ministroker would go best with my 72cc aluminum malossi mhr relica bore (i got a top of the line bore so i want an equally good ministroker as long as it aint at a ridiculous price) $150-300 is my price range
i know u partially answered that question yesterday but i want a 2nd opinion from u (wheelman)

Greetings:

No question about it: Buy the gears. Yes, you need a big-ugly press to put the big gear on the axle shaft. Honda or M/C dealers can do it for 15 minutes' labor.

Not buying the gears is like begging to turn all that high-precision Italian craftsmanship into a worthless puddle of molten aluminum. There's some debate on this point, but I feel 9.1:1 isn't tall enough. Many others agree. Your variator maxes out, and after that even 55 is potentially over-revving. Burnt_Toast once posted that his Polini Corsa 72 went 60 using 9:1s, and I have no reason to doubt him, but it must have been really well-tuned on the jetting. At the same time, I believe sustaining that high RPM is going to cause premature wear at best and calamity at worst, particularly if your jetting is the slightest bit off.

If Flash II (Malossi - equipped AF05 Aero @ 65cc) can hit 60, there's little doubt your 72 can do at least as well. Mini-stroker takes your engine displacement up a bit, gives a bit more low-end torque and more power obviously can make more speed. However some folks mistrust Taiwanese mini-stroker cranks for reliability and longevity. If you do mini-stroke, you'll need the gears even more. (See above.) So I suggest you do the gears first.