Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

Greetings:

Are you getting a newer-than-'85 SE/05 block and crank? The intake bolt pattern is compatible with the aftermarket manifolds but the case port itself is not. It's a bit too wide and a CT Chrome manifold - for example - leaves an eighth-inch wide gap over by the cylinder. This can be addressed by fabricating an adaptor plate to cover that gap.

Be sure the carb flange threads are not stripped if you re-use your stock carb. That alone can account for an engine seize, as it takes a surprisingly tiny air leak to lean your mixture to disastrous levels. You can cut 1/4"x20 TPI threads and use hardware-store bolts just by reaming the manifold and the brown carb insulator out to 17/64ths.

It will be an 87 se50 block with the 63cc CMR kit. The o-ringed head may or may not find its way onto the motor, My newly acquired 10:1s will provide a more proper gearing, and my keli/sef combo will find there way in as well. I don't plan on using a ct just yet as I can't afford to drop that kind of cash on a carb right now, but I like having the option open in the future, rather than being stuck with the stock carb forever unless I plan on welding up a custom intake.
I do however plan on making some sort of "studs" for the carb, as I imaging jets will be in and out of this guy for a while, and it will make sure my turtle power doesn't strip them... not sure how just yet, but I have a few ideas that I will share once they come a reality.

When I went down to get my work clothes out of the drier, I decided to take a peek at the inside of the belt cover. Sure enough right by the starter there are 3 fresh chunks taken out of the belt cover. So atleast I know my tuning skills aren't complete crap, and that the nut just somehow "just fell off"...

Greetings:

So the "chunks" are consistent with a nut rolling off and jamming the pulley's Bendix teeth? Glad for your tuning skills, but let's talk about your wrench-spinning...

Instead of the flat washer that normally lives behind that nut, I have a wavy-gravy spring washer I now install back there. Just short of LocTite-level insurance against the same thing happening to me. The main thing is to apply the Honda-san-prescribed torque against an immobilized pulley. I seem to recall 27 or 29 ft.-lbs. on the smaller AF05 crank, but you can look it up.

Now that you know your engine's not necessarily toast, maybe you can get it going again with a temporary pulley repair, and without welding. A while back someone with an admittedly less-powerful Spree got this to work so this might be worth a try:

1. Get a good used or new fixed (outer) pulley with guaranteed-good splines.
2. Put that and the crank nut in the dishwasher, on a day when Ms. Turtle isn't there. Then wash all with acetone.
3. Using a fresh paper towel each time, repeatedly wash the crankshaft end with Acetone. Do it until the towel comes back clean.
4. Locate the biggest, thickest flat washer that'll fit inside the kickstarter "castle" on your pulley. Wash that down with Acetone, too.
5. Without touching your greasy fingers to the mating surfaces, assemble the cleaned parts with a thick slathering the reddest LocTite you can find - the stuff that won't come apart without the assistance of Nuclear explosions. A good layer on the remnants on the splines, but also the crankshaft shoulders and both sides of the big flat washer too.
6. Using the clutch holding tool above, tighten the crank nut to 35 ft.-lbs., hoping it doesn't strip its threads. Alternatively, a thicker nut would recruit more threads to the task.
7. Walk away and don't touch anything for at least 24 hours, maybe better 2-3 days.

I've seen LocTite alone hold a clutch assembly together, even after that big thin nut was removed. Maybe it's enough to handle the shearing forces too. If it works, even for a while, perhaps you can afford to take your time building up Turtle II.

got the old motor out and the new one mounted.
man, the starter really doesn't like turning 63cc... may try my 85 starter.
o-ringed head wont fit without machining due to domed piston VS flat top.
will have to get some more bullet connectors as the 87 se50 engine has the "modular plugs" for its electrical connections.
final drive cover is giving me absolute * getting it off, but i will prevail. good thing that VT sent me gaskets, was able to reuse the old ones when i installed the 10:1s in the old motor.
debating pod filter still... anyone know if there is a K&N type that's avail from big chain stores that will fit the stock carb size? the SE50 type intake points out more than the aero one and i fear that it wont seal right.
hopefully after a run to the hardware store and harbor freight to pick up a rubber mallet tomorrow, i can get this scoot to run again!

Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:

So the "chunks" are consistent with a nut rolling off and jamming the pulley's Bendix teeth? Glad for your tuning skills, but let's talk about your wrench-spinning...

Instead of the flat washer that normally lives behind that nut, I have a wavy-gravy spring washer I now install back there. Just short of LocTite-level insurance against the same thing happening to me. The main thing is to apply the Honda-san-prescribed torque against an immobilized pulley. I seem to recall 27 or 29 ft.-lbs. on the smaller AF05 crank, but you can look it up.

Now that you know your engine's not necessarily toast, maybe you can get it going again with a temporary pulley repair, and without welding. A while back someone with an admittedly less-powerful Spree got this to work so this might be worth a try:

1. Get a good used or new fixed (outer) pulley with guaranteed-good splines.
2. Put that and the crank nut in the dishwasher, on a day when Ms. Turtle isn't there. Then wash all with acetone.
3. Using a fresh paper towel each time, repeatedly wash the crankshaft end with Acetone. Do it until the towel comes back clean.
4. Locate the biggest, thickest flat washer that'll fit inside the kickstarter "castle" on your pulley. Wash that down with Acetone, too.
5. Without touching your greasy fingers to the mating surfaces, assemble the cleaned parts with a thick slathering the reddest LocTite you can find - the stuff that won't come apart without the assistance of Nuclear explosions. A good layer on the remnants on the splines, but also the crankshaft shoulders and both sides of the big flat washer too.
6. Using the clutch holding tool above, tighten the crank nut to 35 ft.-lbs., hoping it doesn't strip its threads. Alternatively, a thicker nut would recruit more threads to the task.
7. Walk away and don't touch anything for at least 24 hours, maybe better 2-3 days.

I've seen LocTite alone hold a clutch assembly together, even after that big thin nut was removed. Maybe it's enough to handle the shearing forces too. If it works, even for a while, perhaps you can afford to take your time building up Turtle II.

I've been wonder about using a different method of fixing this kind of screw-up. Do what wheelman says for the splines but instead of trying to use the screwed up threads on the crank, why not just use a die of the next size down and have all brand new threads. Get ah appropriately sized nut from you local nut and bolt supplier and all you will have to sweat is getting it a part later on.

Greetings:

I didn't get that the nut and crank end threads were messed up. If so Bear's suggestion is apt.

UNI filter UP4112AST (the one-inch diameter) fits the stock carb bellmouth, has a 15-degree angle so you can rotate to clear the shock and/or bodywork.

The stock starter is fine to spin 78 and even 90ccs. It has trouble only with very high compression - anything above 150 and it may stutter. Mine could be made to spin an initial assembly of Flash II at 170PSI+, but I had to Pre-Kick it a couple of times to get it loose. If you starter is struggling, it's because the piston is trying to squeeze 63ccs of volume into a combustion chamber designed for 50. Definitely have to hog out the CC or perhaps run several head gaskets. I vote the former.

If you remove the rear wheel, a couple of obvious knock points appear to ease tapping the tranny cover off. Grease both sides of the new gasket and enjoy Re-Usability.

got the new motor in and wired. once i cleaned the carb it fired right up. seems to want to idle kinda high, but feels strong.
...then it ran out of gas...
went to get some gas in a torrential downpour to find my basement flooded, due to the 5 inches of rain that south KC/ Leawood KS got in less than 2 hours.
now to wait for a dry day to test the jetting.
once i feel that the bore is "fully broken in" i will switch out the box for a pod filter and a custom intake.
going to take it easy for a while though as i think TW only had a couple hundred miles on the bore. so i dont want to mess it up just yet. going to wait for winter to pull it apart, case match, and do some port/polish work.
tell then i am just going to ride it... who am i kidding. i will be doing something in a week or two to it.