Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

steffen707 wrote:

eclypse wrote:
Just use that to grab the teeth and then put a wrench on the nut to tighten or loosen it.

You mean use the strap wrench on the teeth of the front pulley so that isolates the crank from getting shocked by the impact?

I don't use the impact to put those nuts on, but I use them to take the nuts off, and i just want to understand what technique you guys are using to avoid this "pressed on crank" screwing up the counter weight thing.

Actually a chain wrench works better on a sprocket. But not every on has or can afford a chain wrench.

plus don't you have to have the right chain because if loops aren't spaced right, then they wouldn't grip the teeth right?

steffen707 wrote:plus don't you have to have the right chain because if loops aren't spaced right, then they wouldn't grip the teeth right?

The chain just need to grab a few of the teeth, not all of them.

I just use a pair of vise grips and an impact. Then when reinstalling use LOCTITE.

martynkim wrote:I just use a pair of vise grips and an impact. Then when reinstalling use LOCTITE.

whatever you are grabbing with the vise grips is getting marred or scratched, if you mean the front pulley, then you're scratching the pulley face.

Also, the use of loctite is a bad idea and not needed. Just torque it to correct spec and the nut should never come off. if you use too much loctite, it could fly off and get on the belt, bad idea.

steffen707 wrote:

eclypse wrote:
Just use that to grab the teeth and then put a wrench on the nut to tighten or loosen it.

You mean use the strap wrench on the teeth of the front pulley so that isolates the crank from getting shocked by the impact?

I don't use the impact to put those nuts on, but I use them to take the nuts off, and i just want to understand what technique you guys are using to avoid this "pressed on crank" screwing up the counter weight thing.

NO IMPACT WRENCH PERIOD!

Whatever ya got to hold the teeth from moving and use a regular socket wrench to get the nut off and on. I never through off the crank but just the threads.

When I use an impact wrench I make sure that I don't hold anything. The piston's compression offers enough resistance to let the impact driver do it's thing.

If I use an impact drive to tighten I make sure the threads are meshed and all splined parts are on the appropriate splines.

Good luck.

elitedio wrote:When I use an impact wrench I make sure that I don't hold anything. The piston's compression offers enough resistance to let the impact driver do it's thing.

If I use an impact drive to tighten I make sure the threads are meshed and all splined parts are on the appropriate splines.

Good luck.

Yep, that's how pressed together cranks get twisted. Thats why it is important to hold whatever item you are loosening the nut on, so all the stress is on the flywheel or whatever you are working on and not on the crank.

I am going to buy a torgue wrench what should it be set too when tightening the crank?

Check your service manual for all torque specs. Service manuals are available in the Tech Docs section.

Greetings:

From Wheel-Memory : Clutch nut needs ~29 Ft.-Lbs.
Crank nut on the AF16 needs ~43, or 2.5 Wheel-Grunts.

Steffen, there is debate regarding the safety of rattle-gunning the crankshaft. The crankshaft is an assembly composed of 5 pieces: Alternator shaft, Variator shaft, a pair of flywheels and the big-end crank pin. Friction is the only thing holding them in the orientation Honda-san prescribed when he pressed them together with his giant hydraulic press: True, square and straight.

And while friction seems to be plenty to keep it that way in operation, it is said that Vibration is an excellent lubricant. So good that it can overcome the friction that keeps the crank aligned.

A rattle gun (Toc-toc-toc) can produce that vibration. Acting on the Vario end of the crankshaft (Toc-toc-toc), it wants to twist the Left flywheel (Toc-toc-toc). Should it succeed in loosening its grip on the crankpin (Toc-toc-toc), however microscopically, then the two flywheels are no longer precisely aligned. This in turn means the alternator shaft and the Vario shaft are no longer rotating on the same axis. Bad stuff for crank seals, bearings and the shaft assembly itself.

A holder - strap wrench, HF Chain Holder Tool, or Tusk Clutch holder - makes sure the torque you put on the nut is opposed by the tool, not the crankpin. All the force is confined to the 14mm (or 12mm in the case of the AF05 crank) variator shaft segment of the crank. Many have omitted the holder and whacked away with no apparent harm. I prefer not to do so. YMMV. Do what you wish. It's your engine, after all.

Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:

From Wheel-Memory : Clutch nut needs ~29 Ft.-Lbs.
Crank nut on the AF16 needs ~43, or 2.5 Wheel-Grunts.

Steffen, there is debate regarding the safety of rattle-gunning the crankshaft. The crankshaft is an assembly composed of 5 pieces: Alternator shaft, Variator shaft, a pair of flywheels and the big-end crank pin. Friction is the only thing holding them in the orientation Honda-san prescribed when he pressed them together with his giant hydraulic press: True, square and straight.

And while friction seems to be plenty to keep it that way in operation, it is said that Vibration is an excellent lubricant. So good that it can overcome the friction that keeps the crank aligned.

A rattle gun (Toc-toc-toc) can produce that vibration. Acting on the Vario end of the crankshaft (Toc-toc-toc), it wants to twist the Left flywheel (Toc-toc-toc). Should it succeed in loosening its grip on the crankpin (Toc-toc-toc), however microscopically, then the two flywheels are no longer precisely aligned. This in turn means the alternator shaft and the Vario shaft are no longer rotating on the same axis. Bad stuff for crank seals, bearings and the shaft assembly itself.

A holder - strap wrench, HF Chain Holder Tool, or Tusk Clutch holder - makes sure the torque you put on the nut is opposed by the tool, not the crankpin. All the force is confined to the 14mm (or 12mm in the case of the AF05 crank) variator shaft segment of the crank. Many have omitted the holder and whacked away with no apparent harm. I prefer not to do so. YMMV. Do what you wish. It's your engine, after all.

d*** good explanation and i guess i should consider myself lucky for not screwing my crank up. Next time i'm in Wausau, i'll get something from HF to avoid this problem.