Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

konaking wrote:Why can't we all just be friends and scoot together in peace? Oh yeah I know why, bear has a huge mouth and can't help acting like a old grumpy * muncher.

I knew, it a frickin' politically correct liberal know nothing. "Why can't we all just be friends and scoot together in peace?" is their favorite saying when they are wrong. Also anyone that believes that crap has paid not on bit of attention to history and are doomed to fail.

OK, men SETTLE DOWN. Go to your corners. You are going to get my topic locked AGAIN, and not sure if I have the answer yet. Go somewhere else and call each other names.

Once again 1999 Elite SA50P
7000 miles
8 spark plug
muffler cleaned and restrictor bored out.

Jumpy as a cat. Not to Ms. Bean's liking. * FAST take off, almost scoots right from under you. VERY SMALL throttle turns get burst of speeds.

Throttle cable or not. Now some of you all have Ms. Bean worried she will break the thing.

Greetings:

It sounds as though your clutch really "hooks up" as it engages. Most people consider that to be a good thing.

The throttle is not a 2-position device, but infinitely adjustable. Its modulation is a learned skill, requiring a supple wrist with a firm grip on the handlebar. Sudden body movements, such as going over irregular pavement, must not be translated into unintentional throttle application. Each new motorcycle has its own characteristic throttle response. If the cable or the throttle slide is sticking, that can cause a lurchy launch.

Is it possible for you to practice launching someplace safe, like an empty parking lot? Roll it on gently and see if you can control the abruptness of the clutch engagement. If you cannot, and you feel that the issue is a sticky cable, lube or better still, replace it. If that was the problem, your launches will become more graceful.

If not, the clutch itself may be gummed up with belt or pad dust, causing its all-or-nothing behavior. In that case, disassembly and a very light greasing of the shoe pivots may be necessary.

Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:

It sounds as though your clutch really "hooks up" as it engages. Most people consider that to be a good thing.

The throttle is not a 2-position device, but infinitely adjustable. Its modulation is a learned skill, requiring a supple wrist with a firm grip on the handlebar. Sudden body movements, such as going over irregular pavement, must not be translated into unintentional throttle application. Each new motorcycle has its own characteristic throttle response. If the cable or the throttle slide is sticking, that can cause a lurchy launch.

Is it possible for you to practice launching someplace safe, like an empty parking lot? Roll it on gently and see if you can control the abruptness of the clutch engagement. If you cannot, and you feel that the issue is a sticky cable, lube or better still, replace it. If that was the problem, your launches will become more graceful.

If not, the clutch itself may be gummed up with belt or pad dust, causing its all-or-nothing behavior. In that case, disassembly and a very light greasing of the shoe pivots may be necessary.

That is what I am talking about. got that step by step and on it this weekend. You sir are a refined, gentleman. With Knowledge and Knowledge means Power.

Ms. Bean liks both.

GJbean wrote:

Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:

It sounds as though your clutch really "hooks up" as it engages. Most people consider that to be a good thing.

The throttle is not a 2-position device, but infinitely adjustable. Its modulation is a learned skill, requiring a supple wrist with a firm grip on the handlebar. Sudden body movements, such as going over irregular pavement, must not be translated into unintentional throttle application. Each new motorcycle has its own characteristic throttle response. If the cable or the throttle slide is sticking, that can cause a lurchy launch.

Is it possible for you to practice launching someplace safe, like an empty parking lot? Roll it on gently and see if you can control the abruptness of the clutch engagement. If you cannot, and you feel that the issue is a sticky cable, lube or better still, replace it. If that was the problem, your launches will become more graceful.

If not, the clutch itself may be gummed up with belt or pad dust, causing its all-or-nothing behavior. In that case, disassembly and a very light greasing of the shoe pivots may be necessary.

That is what I am talking about. got that step by step and on it this weekend. You sir are a refined, gentleman. With Knowledge and Knowledge means Power.

Ms. Bean liks both.

Follow wheeljedi's advice also, a 1K center spring may slow the launch and be a good up grade.

Unless he already has an aftermarket spring, wouldn't a 1k center would be more touchy?

I had a 2k center and as soon as you hit the throttle it would instantly jump to 15mph, kind of dangerous when you aren't ready for it

Greetings:

The center spring plays NO part in how a stock-ish scooter launches. A stronger one keeps the variator in "low gear" a litle longer, but the Clutch controls the launch.

I recommend you first ensure that the throttle is operating smoothly, including the slide in the carb. If any part from the grip down to the slide is sticking, that's a problem.

If not, then it has to be the clutch.

808BMW wrote:Unless he already has an aftermarket spring, wouldn't a 1k center would be more touchy?

I had a 2k center and as soon as you hit the throttle it would instantly jump to 15mph, kind of dangerous when you aren't ready for it

I get exactly the opposite effect. slower take off.

martynkim wrote:

808BMW wrote:Unless he already has an aftermarket spring, wouldn't a 1k center would be more touchy?

I had a 2k center and as soon as you hit the throttle it would instantly jump to 15mph, kind of dangerous when you aren't ready for it

I get exactly the opposite effect. slower take off.

^^^ Didn't you mean "clutch springs"? Wheelman is right center springs only affects the duration of gear ratio, @ Ms. bean you maybe experiencing worn/binding/sticking/ clutch or springs? Check clutch and springs and lube the pivot points/ areas like what Mr. Wheelman said.GL!

GJBean, My 1994 elite SR was the same way. The scooter has massive low-end but zero top-end. I very much enjoyed it but didn't enjoy the revs at 35.
These scoots are really considered wheelie machines, much like the Yamaha Jog. They have a burst at first throttle operation, which is liked by many.

My honest opinion would be to leave everything alone and put in a $40 keli variator from ebay. It comes with slightly heavier rollers which reduces the "pull your pants off" from a stop light.. but adds extremely smooth operation and lots of top-end.

I would bet if you did this simple mod you would be very happy.

Good luck

Why buy the whole variator when all she needs is $15 or $20 worth of rollers?

ktroy wrote:GJBean, My 1994 elite SR was the same way. The scooter has massive low-end but zero top-end. I very much enjoyed it but didn't enjoy the revs at 35.
These scoots are really considered wheelie machines, much like the Yamaha Jog. They have a burst at first throttle operation, which is liked by many.

My honest opinion would be to leave everything alone and put in a $40 keli variator from ebay. It comes with slightly heavier rollers which reduces the "pull your pants off" from a stop light.. but adds extremely smooth operation and lots of top-end.

I would bet if you did this simple mod you would be very happy.

Good luck

Tell me more. Is there a part number? Actually, if it is easier to put in the whole assembly I am with you.

Greetings:

Once more, the variator has no role in the launch. The connection between the engine and the rear wheel is determined at the clutch pads/bell interface. The variator should start in low gear to obtain best acceleration. Weighing down the variator with more than stock-weight rollers might slow down the take-off, but only by shifting into "second" before the clutch engages. This is not what Honda-san intended. Even if it indirectly seems to "improve" the launch, it might overheat and warp the clutch bell and it will almost certainly cause midrange and top speed issues, as the stock engine lugs at too-low RPM to provide adequate power at cruising speed.

I recommend you go back to the basics: Lube (or replace, if necessary) the throttle grip, cable, carb slide, and possibly lube the clutch pivots. Inspect the clutch pads and make sure the bell is round. Get it working well as a stock machine before mucking around with anything else.

Munstah666 wrote:

martynkim wrote:

808BMW wrote:Unless he already has an aftermarket spring, wouldn't a 1k center would be more touchy?

I had a 2k center and as soon as you hit the throttle it would instantly jump to 15mph, kind of dangerous when you aren't ready for it

I get exactly the opposite effect. slower take off.

^^^ Didn't you mean "clutch springs"? Wheelman is right center springs only affects the duration of gear ratio, @ Ms. bean you maybe experiencing worn/binding/sticking/ clutch or springs? Check clutch and springs and lube the pivot points/ areas like what Mr. Wheelman said.GL!

I may be mistaken. I have only upgraded both at the same time. (clutch & center) the combination of these did give me less pull at take off. I have done this on an Elite and an Aero with the same result both times. The only differences were the variators/ weight, and a pipe on the Elite.

Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:

Once more, the variator has no role in the launch. The connection between the engine and the rear wheel is determined at the clutch pads/bell interface. The variator should start in low gear to obtain best acceleration. Weighing down the variator with more than stock-weight rollers might slow down the take-off, but only by shifting into "second" before the clutch engages. This is not what Honda-san intended. Even if it indirectly seems to "improve" the launch, it might overheat and warp the clutch bell and it will almost certainly cause midrange and top speed issues, as the stock engine lugs at too-low RPM to provide adequate power at cruising speed.

I recommend you go back to the basics: Lube (or replace, if necessary) the throttle grip, cable, carb slide, and possibly lube the clutch pivots. Inspect the clutch pads and make sure the bell is round. Get it working well as a stock machine before mucking around with anything else.

Hmmmmm? Upgrading the variator will overheat the clutch bell and causes issues in the mid range and top end? You better tell this to 90% of all scooter owners or there are going to be a whole lot of bad clutches very soon!

Trust me, nothing about a stock elite is lugging at a too low RPM. I never heard of this, its stock setup is extremely low-end focused and revs to almost red line pulling out of a parking lot

Regardless, wheelman knows his stuff, and has helped me on many threads. I do not understand his theory on this matter but there must be SOMETHING about it that makes sense! Sorry wheelman, I'm just sayin'

The keli variator broadens and smooths the power delivery a heap load, especially a restricted "P" version of the elite, talk about night and day difference!
But if theres a problem with your scoot your MUST get that fixed first. I think that's where wheelman is coming from.

have fun!