Slow from ~10-22 MPH

[DKAudio]

you need new piston rings!! not enough compression

For compression to slow the scooter down that much it would be a b**** to start. So no it is not compression. Rookies and noobees should be silent and learn.

These two posts really worry me and I was actually going to make a new thread about this. My scooter is hard to start if it sits for 15 hours or more, it takes a lot of throttle twisting while cranking, takes maybe 10-13 seconds. If I stop the scooter and use it again within 8 hours or so then it is easy to start. What are your opinions?

[bakaracer]

Check the bystarter to see if its working how it should. Look in the service manual for info on specs.

[Bear45-70]

Man, I called every Honda dealer and scooter place within a 20 mile radius. Absolutely no one stocks a 641 x 15.5 x 30 belt and only one place had rollers but they were not 16 X 13 10g. This is frustrating, I wanted to work on it today so I could ride it to work next week. Guess I'll be ordering online but I cannot find the same website that carry's both either. Also, I have been trying to look for a Bando belt, after some searching it appears that the correct current part number is 23100-GG2-751 but again, I cannot find it, I've found crosses but not a Bando which everyone seems to like. If someone knows an online retailer that carries both these things for a reasonable price I would be very thankful.

So have them order them, it will take a week at the worst for them to show up. Dealers do not routinely stock parts for 15 year old bikes of any kind.

23100-GG2-751 fits all SA50s 1994 thru 2001

[DKAudio]

Check the bystarter to see if its working how it should. Look in the service manual for info on specs.

I bet that is it. I noticed if I have the bike sitting outside and it is warm I can leave it for a day and it will start up right away. But if I have it in my cooler garage over night and try to start it in the morning when it is 65 or so it takes a lot longer. The bystarter is temp sensitive so I wonder if that is faulty. I will check it as soon as I get a chance, putting in a patio door at a friends today and the next few days after work.

[DKAudio]

I got some time to check a few things...

The resistance of my auto bystarter was 4.8 ohms, manual said it should be 10 ohms max. I then took it off the carb and put 12V across it, I let it sit for about 5 minutes, it was 25/32" before and after 5 minutes it was about 31/32" and it was warm from the little heater inside. Therefore, I see my bystarter and totally functional.

On another note the belt looks to be in really good shape, no cracks, looks pretty new, it is a 23100-GN2-0030 Bando. This belt is a 634 x 15.5 x 30, not the 641 that I thought it should be.

[DKAudio]

I'm starting to think my bystarter may have been stuck. This morning I started the scooter when it was 60 and it fired up immediately, cranked only twice or so. I ordered some 16 x 13, 10g roller weight too. Hopefully I should be good to go once those are installed.

Thanks for all the help.

[DKAudio]

Well I got the new rollers installed, removed all the grease and it still feels the same and is slow in the mid band. The old rollers definitely had flat spots though. My belt is still 15mm wide, well within the service limit.

I also changed the transmission fluid and got some new 10W-40 in there. I don't think that has ever been done, the fluid was really dirty.

Any other ideas?

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

THIS:

I will never accelerate until I get to flat ground again (or it will accelerate really slowely). Any ideas?

...sounds like either the rear pulleys' Center Spring is weak or that the pulleys are sticking a little. When torque is taken away as you decelerate, the cam device in the rear pulley keeps the pulleys in "high gear". When you re-apply throttle, that same cam mechanism is supposed to help the Contra spring squeeze the rear pulleys back together so you go back into a lower gear.

If the spring is weak or the pulleys are sticky, the engine can't grab any revs so you're accelerating in "5th" after you slow down for your right turn. It malfunctions the same way when you turn left.

[DKAudio]

Greetings:

THIS:

I will never accelerate until I get to flat ground again (or it will accelerate really slowely). Any ideas?

...sounds like either the rear pulleys' Center Spring is weak or that the pulleys are sticking a little. When torque is taken away as you decelerate, the cam device in the rear pulley keeps the pulleys in "high gear". When you re-apply throttle, that same cam mechanism is supposed to help the Contra spring squeeze the rear pulleys back together so you go back into a lower gear.

If the spring is weak or the pulleys are sticky, the engine can't grab any revs so you're accelerating in "5th" after you slow down for your right turn. It malfunctions the same way when you turn left.

Is this center spring you are referring to on page 8-6 of the manual? What is recommended at this point, replace that spring? I don't have a clutch spring compressor as the manual mentions is needed. I also checked ebay and a search engine and cannot find this spring.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Search Technical Documents for several ideas on work-arounds for the pulley compressor. I'd venture that even Scooter Shop Techs don't purchase this pricey tool from Honda-san. You just need a way to hold down the pulley while you work on that gi-normous (for a scooter...) thin nut.

You may not need a new spring at all, but only to disassemble and lube the pulley cam. Hit the front pulley boss for good measure, and by all means find a new belt.

[DKAudio]

Greetings:

Search Technical Documents for several ideas on work-arounds for the pulley compressor. I'd venture that even Scooter Shop Techs don't purchase this pricey tool from Honda-san. You just need a way to hold down the pulley while you work on that gi-normous (for a scooter...) thin nut.

You may not need a new spring at all, but only to disassemble and lube the pulley cam. Hit the front pulley boss for good measure, and by all means find a new belt.

Thank you for your help and I think I know what I need to do but just to verify...You're saying take the clutch and front pulley off and grease up the crank and cam shaft and just reassemble? Do I need Lithium grease like Honda used (I have some Slick 50 One Grease fortified with PTFE general purpose).

You guys said to clean out the variator when I replace the roller weights. That means to get rid of all the lithium grease, correct? I cleaned the inside with paper towels and then carb cleaner so there is ZERO grease in mine. I just want to be sure that this isn't what's causing the issue.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

DKAudio Axt-ed:

You're saying take the clutch and front pulley off and grease up the crank and cam shaftand just reassemble?

I don't believe you'll find a cam shaft, unless you're working on some secret 4-stroke Honda nobody else has. What I said was to grease the "pulley cam", which is a pair of diagonal grooves on the outer pulley that run along some screw-in nubs on the inner part of the pulley shaft.

READ the Driven Face section of the Service Manual. The pulleys come completely apart. 25 year-old grease can get dusty and dry and that may be enough to inhibit the pulley movement. Solvent-clean them squeaky and apply fresh grease according to the manual.

The "crank" you need to grease is just a very light dab of the stuff on the outer surface of the front pulley boss. Be careful not to put so much that it spatters onto the belt and pulley faces.

With both pulleys freely mobile, the spring and engine RPM may more rapidly find their balance. If the procedure doesn't improve your situation, then the center spring may have gone too soft.

[DKAudio]

Greetings:

DKAudio Axt-ed:

You're saying take the clutch and front pulley off and grease up the crank and cam shaftand just reassemble?

I don't believe you'll find a cam shaft, unless you're working on some secret 4-stroke Honda nobody else has. What I said was to grease the "pulley cam", which is a pair of diagonal grooves on the outer pulley that run along some screw-in nubs on the inner part of the pulley shaft.

READ the Driven Face section of the Service Manual. The pulleys come completely apart. 25 year-old grease can get dusty and dry and that may be enough to inhibit the pulley movement. Solvent-clean them squeaky and apply fresh grease according to the manual.

The "crank" you need to grease is just a very light dab of the stuff on the outer surface of the front pulley boss. Be careful not to put so much that it spatters onto the belt and pulley faces.

With both pulleys freely mobile, the spring and engine RPM may more rapidly find their balance. If the procedure doesn't improve your situation, then the center spring may have gone too soft.

Haha, of course on the cam shaft, sorry. When you say "outer pulley" and "cam" are you referring to the "driven pulley" as in the manual on page 8-6? If so, I didn't take the rear pulley off when I did my weights so hopefully it will be painfully obvious once it is off. I've read the entire section 8 of the manual and didn't see anything labeled as the pulley cam so I apologize for all the questions.

I also noticed they call the variator the "drive face". When I removed my variator to put new weights in I didn't see anything like the top of 8-4 shows called the boss unless that picture is incorrect and it is just the hollow stand off that the variator rides on. If this is infact the boss, you don't need to grease the inside that will ride on the crankshaft?

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

You have just read the Manual, that is now obvious, so NO FAIR! I haven't read it recently but you're right the variator is the "Drive Face". The hollow stand-offis an apt description of what I call the Pulley Boss. It is squeezed tightly and doesn't spin on the crank but the variator is free to slide upon it, so only grease the outside. Come to think of it, a light dab on the crankshaft should do no harm and perhaps prevent corrosion.

Once you disassemble the rear pulley (AKA "Driven Face"), play with the sheaves and you'll see the ingenious "cam" affair I described. The "nubs" unscrew from the inner shaft, then the whole thing comes apart with a couple of seals and bushings in the ends. I dunno, I haven't read the Manual. Anyway put grease where it goes, avoiding where it doesn't and re-assemble.

[DKAudio]

Great, thank you. I need to find time to borrow my friends impact again (he has a Ridgid 12V Lithium Ion that works great) and will let you know the results.

Thanks again