Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

Ok, sorry for the delay. I'm working 12hr days right now and time is something I don't have.

So I got the new battery in and it cranks very healthy now. When it does get "stuck" as I call it, I drain the gas in the carb with that screw and it usually cranks again no problem. By stuck, I mean I'm pressing the start button and nothing happens. I hear the relay click, but no cranking. Then it cranks again fine.

Still wont start. Its getting gas, its getting oil, the plug is new. I even tried the old plug and nothing. So, I think its not getting spark. I put my voltmeter thing on the ignition coil and cranked and it read 0.00 with an occasional 0.03 for a second. I don't know. Maybe the coil went bad?? The gap is correct I think.. its a dime sized space between the electrode and the metal. Grrr this thing.

Oh, and I took the spark plug out completely and cranked it over to get some of the excess oil out. The new plug was COVERED with oil before I did that.

When I tested it with the electricity-o-meter I put the leads on these silver tabs and cranked. Figured I should see something other than 0.00??! Yes green is neg. I know. Can the coil go bad just by sitting out?

Greetings:

Quoth Justin:

The new plug was COVERED with oil before I did that.

Ah-HAH! This would explain the locking, the sticking, the failure to start. The crankcase fills with oil - Drip, Drip, Drip over the months - until there's enough oil to Hydrolock your engine. If there's enough oil in the combustion chamber, the starter can't push the piston over the top of the crank rotation.

The cure is to pull the engine ALL the way off and literally pour it out with the jug removed. I don't know about your coil, but there's a static test you can do; measuring Ohms of resistance as described in the Service Manual. Don't need a bad coil to explain your non-starting issue though.

I would get a small engine spark tester, and see if you get spark. Or make a jumper out of two small battery charger clips and piece of stiff 14 gauge copper wire so you can easily ground a new plug to the body of the motor and hold it at a good angle so you can see the gap. The proper spark test or is one of the handiest diagnostic tools I have besides my analog meter and the compression tester. I save hours of messing around with that little testor. The second one of my motors wont start I clip that tester on right away and verify I have fire first before proceeding. On my snow plow tractor I had a no start and in a minute I figured out in had no fire and bolted on a new coil.

Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:

Quoth Justin:

The new plug was COVERED with oil before I did that.

Ah-HAH! This would explain the locking, the sticking, the failure to start. The crankcase fills with oil - Drip, Drip, Drip over the months - until there's enough oil to Hydrolock your engine. If there's enough oil in the combustion chamber, the starter can't push the piston over the top of the crank rotation.

The cure is to pull the engine ALL the way off and literally pour it out with the jug removed. I don't know about your coil, but there's a static test you can do; measuring Ohms of resistance as described in the Service Manual. Don't need a bad coil to explain your non-starting issue though.

Ugh, really? Remove the engine and flip it over? Is there any other way? When I cranked it without a plug quite a bit of oil came flying out. Little spits and spatters mostly. I also removed the carb bowl and used a needle to clean out that itty bitty hole, but it was clean I guess because I didnt find any grime. And, I just removed the bystarter so I could test it. Just in case. I love your confidence maybe I found the problem. And about the oil level in the tank, I had just refilled it about a year ago when I cleaned the carb and bored out the intake. I had bought brand new higher quality oil so I KNOW i filled it up and now its not totally full.

patthesoundguy wrote:I would get a small engine spark tester, and see if you get spark. Or make a jumper out of two small battery charger clips and piece of stiff 14 gauge copper wire so you can easily ground a new plug to the body of the motor and hold it at a good angle so you can see the gap. The proper spark test or is one of the handiest diagnostic tools I have besides my analog meter and the compression tester. I save hours of messing around with that little testor. The second one of my motors wont start I clip that tester on right away and verify I have fire first before proceeding. On my snow plow tractor I had a no start and in a minute I figured out in had no fire and bolted on a new coil.

Do you think AutoZone would have the spark tester? Funds are massively limited at the moment but I guess I may have to. Might try your other way.

And, just for fun, here's a video of it running about a year ago. Whats that rough noise in the background? Bearing?
http://s42.photobucket.com/user/wr200/m ... 3.mp4.html

Update: Which setting on the voltmeter do I use to test ohms? Theres 200, 2000, 20k, 200k, 2000k. Hooked the bystarter up to a battery for a few minutes and it didnt move at all. I have a heat gun if that'll help heat the engine up just to get it running.

Those spark testors dont cost much, but that jumper idea I came up with costs about a buck to make likely, I made one for 0.99 plus tax today so $1.14 after tax and a left over piece of 12 gauge wire from the shed wiring job. the trick to using that kind of thing is you nneedto confirm the plug fires first. So a new plug or a plug you have tried on somthing else with that jumper. I do that all the time, take a plug over to the snowblower or mower take the plug in question hook it to the plug wire, ground the plug, pull it over and look for spark. Just to double check. Now ive had plugs more than once that would spark just fine outside not installed in the motor but wouldn't fire installed. And if you do have a crankcase full of oil you will need to clear it before proceeding. Pullingthe motor is not as time consuming as you might think and then you'll be sure its good to go.

Greetings:

Yeah, pulling an engine sounds like a huge job, but with practice it can be a 20-30 minute operation, depending on the scooter model and plastics. Once it's on the workbench, many inspections and dismantling get a whole lot easier. If you have a Shop Vac, and can rig up a "Hookah" using small-diameter tubing and a catch bottle, you might be able to vacuum the oil out of there. But by the time you build such a rig, you could have the engine off.

Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:

Yeah, pulling an engine sounds like a huge job, but with practice it can be a 20-30 minute operation, depending on the scooter model and plastics. Once it's on the workbench, many inspections and dismantling get a whole lot easier. If you have a Shop Vac, and can rig up a "Hookah" using small-diameter tubing and a catch bottle, you might be able to vacuum the oil out of there. But by the time you build such a rig, you could have the engine off.

I agree by the time you make the vac rig the motor will be out. I have done the vacum out the crankcase trick on the golf cart because pulling the motor was not an option. I also had the attachment ready and could hook it to the vacum in less than a min. I took the motor out of one of my sprees about a month ago, took no time. And now having done that I wish I had pulled the motor to put my big bore kit on would have been way easier than crouching over for a hour or two. Make sure to have a bolt to plug the oil line from the oil tank so the oil doesnt spill all over with nothing to catch and then stop the flow. Nothing worse than pulling a fluid line and realizing you dont have anything to plug the line or catch the mess. Been there done that

Greetings:

A hemostat clamp or even a small Vise-Grip set to squeeze but not crush the line makes it easy to pull the oil tank line without unsightly stains to the Priceless Persian rug on the workshop floor.

Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:

A hemostat clamp or even a small Vise-Grip set to squeeze but not crush the line makes it easy to pull the oil tank line without unsightly stains to the Priceless Persian rug on the workshop floor.

I have hose pincher tools especially designed for that purpose. They dont kill the lines great investment many years ago

Its great so many people try to revive their sprees. I beat my friend to 30 on his 79 express the other day on my 85 spree, good times.
Youre going to have to let go all the precious fluids you put in there a year ago. remove the spark plug and flip your spree on its side or upside down if you feel crazy. Id kick it over a couple times while its on its side and it should pump out if you are full of oil. Then youre going to have to clear it out still. Id get a battery box and do some 5-7 second starter burst until its cleared out and fuel is a flowing. Replace the plug and should be good to go. 2 strokes are hard to kill.

Well I verified it's getting spark. Can't get the by starter to work so maybe it's bad but I used a heat gun to warm up the engine and carb and it still won't start. I really don't want to get it over my head pulling the engine out.

Greetings:

Engine Removal. It sounds daunting, doesn't it? In the Spree case, it's really a series of simple steps to be tackled one at a time. Follow the Service Manual; if you have a basic Metric socket set and stay organized, it takes 90 minutes, tops. Working on it in the frame is possible, but hard on the back unless you have a lift of some sort.

Justin80 wrote:Well I verified it's getting spark. Can't get the by starter to work so maybe it's bad but I used a heat gun to warm up the engine and carb and it still won't start. I really don't want to get it over my head pulling the engine out.

The test for the bystarter is in the manual. It involves a vacuum tester. But a two dollar ear syringe or baby aspirator will work. If you want it to start and the by starter isn't working or you aren't sure, just choke the intake with your fingers. Either on the inlet of the air box or pull the carb hose and choke the carb itself. I do that that all the time if my spree had been sitting and wouldnt start right away, or in colder weather, I would just reach up under the plastics and choke the airbox inlet. I find I can diagnose a lot by choking a carb. If I get an abundance of fuel around the carb inlet and the engine wont start, I know I have fuel to the carb but some other issue to diagnose, like lack of spark or low compression or both.