Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

keithw wrote:A good tuned pipe, port the intake manifold, rejet the carb, mod the air box. That's what I've done to my motor and it will do 40 mph. The stock jet is a 65, I'm up to an 80. Anything less and it wants to sieze. Mine has a variable front pulley that I've fiddled with. Hasn't changed the top end just made it shift up later. The tuned pipe I built doesn't come on till almost 30 then pulls to 40. At 35 I can cruise at half throttle. I'm at 2000 ft elevation. When I went to 5000 I had to rejet to 75. At sea level I expect I'd be at 85.

?? What are you using for the variable front pulley for the Spree?

noiseguy wrote:

keithw wrote:A good tuned pipe, port the intake manifold, rejet the carb, mod the air box. That's what I've done to my motor and it will do 40 mph. The stock jet is a 65, I'm up to an 80. Anything less and it wants to sieze. Mine has a variable front pulley that I've fiddled with. Hasn't changed the top end just made it shift up later. The tuned pipe I built doesn't come on till almost 30 then pulls to 40. At 35 I can cruise at half throttle. I'm at 2000 ft elevation. When I went to 5000 I had to rejet to 75. At sea level I expect I'd be at 85.

?? What are you using for the variable front pulley for the Spree?

He has a pal spree like bike,i have been meaning to ask for some crank measurements to compare to a spree crank.

Mine is a Pal, AF17. It has the AF05E engine but a different side cover and a variable front pulley. According to what I've found they were domestic and exported to New Zealand. Sometime I plan to ping New Zealand dealers and see if I can get some of the unique parts.

If someone has a Spree pulley that I could borrow I would be happy to trial fit it to see if they swap.

Currently the limit to my top speed is the trans. I'm running the engine to 11,000+ so I don't think it will go much faster. I'm in the middle of building an adjustable on the fly tuned pipe. My friend invented them a couple of decades ago. Once I get that done I'll be back into the trans.

From what I've seen I'm convinced that the Spree can be "scare the * out of you fast". You just can't buy the stuff to do it off the shelf. Fortunately I've got a friend who know a ton about making hp from a two stroke and I've got the stuff to fabricate about anything I need.

keithw

Interesting. How about I send you the crank dimensions and we save ourselves shipping parts around? Do you have a micrometer lying around that you can use to measure the crank depth to case, exposed crank length, diameter / etc?

If this is the AF05 case, is it using the Spree intake and reeds, or is it more like the SB50 reeds and manifold? If it's Spree sized, you should swap the parts with the SB50 versions; the intake is better and the reeds larger.

Send the measurements and I'll check it out. I don't have a clue about the manifold and reeds. If someone could post a picture of both I can look and see.

Finished putting the adjustable tuned pipe together. For testing it's manual adjust. I have to stop and adjust some hose clamps. I can very the hp peak from lower, great for acceleration off the line, to top end, great for pegging the speedo. Now to work on adjusting on the fly.

keithw

http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2957 intake comparisons.

Thanks, I'll pop mine out and take a look.

keithw

Building your own pipe? I assume you've seen this version. I used to sell these, but it was too much of a hassle. I still have one hanging on the garage wall to play with:

http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2698&

I'll see if I can get the measurements over the weekend.

I hadn't seen that one before. A bit different design than mine but nice looking. I can see why you don't make them any more. At that price you're working for about nothing.

keithw

keithw wrote:I hadn't seen that one before. A bit different design than mine but nice looking. I can see why you don't make them any more. At that price you're working for about nothing.

Exactly. And people still wanted them cheaper. I built enough to pay off my welder and stopped.

Thats a shame. I was looking for that post the other day hoping that you still made them, i was wanting one.

I pulled the varator from the Pal and did some measurements.



The first step through the seal is .22" long and .780" dia. The shaft smooth part is 1.2" long and .471" diameter. The splines are .25" long and .467" dia and there are 22 splines. The threaded part is .5" long and .392" diameter. These measurements are reasonable close. It would be great if they are the same as the US Spree.

Here is a picture of the Pal variable front pulley (varator)





Made a mod to increase the top speed/lower the engine rpm. That three lobed plate is what the rollers push against to move the pulley face. It rest against the crank flange back by the case. I first made a spacer .065" thick to go between the crank step and the plate. This moves the pulley faces closer together. Now it gets fun. In order to have the outer pulley half engage the splines on the crank the round tube that things slide on had to be shortened by .065". It's hardened, a file won't touch it. I chucked it up in the lathe and used the tool post grinder. This dropped my engine speed from in the 11s to in the 9s at 40 mph and pushed my top speed to 45. I put Dyechem on the pulley faces to see how far up the belt ended up. It went up a bit higher but still has a little more to go. Next time I get into it I'll add another spacer and shorten the tube more. The nice thing that moving the spacers to the other side of the plate returns it back to stock. I haven't looked at varators from other scooters but this approach might work on others.

If this varator fits the US Spree it would be a nice addition.

keithw

Just for reference, my SB50 (Elite E) has the non-variable transmission like the Spree. The shaft has a completely different configuration, so I assume the Spree will too.

Too bad!

Assuming the bike was in good working condition, we used to get those (non-variator equipped) Spree's & Elite E's to go around 38-42 MPH, depending on the weight of the rider. This was back in the late 80's/early 90's..

To do this we would:

-clean & re-oil the air filter, install a new belt, and a correctly gapped plug
-modify the airbox to flow more air
-mill the head to increase compression
-port out the carb & run a larger jet (aftermarket jets were not available back then, so we used a torch tip file to slowly increase the jet size.)
-mildly port & polish the intake
-clean up the exhaust port
-change the stock 2.5 back tire to a 3.0 tire to prevent the engine from "winding out". This is the same as running a slightly lower gear ratio.

Of course, since it lacked a variator, the low end left something to be desired...

GN Racer wrote:Assuming the bike was in good working condition, we used to get those (non-variator equipped) Spree's & Elite E's to go around 38-42 MPH, depending on the weight of the rider. This was back in the late 80's/early 90's..

To do this we would:

-clean & re-oil the air filter, install a new belt, and a correctly gapped plug
-modify the airbox to flow more air
-mill the head to increase compression
-port out the carb & run a larger jet (aftermarket jets were not available back then, so we used a torch tip file to slowly increase the jet size.)
-mildly port & polish the intake
-clean up the exhaust port
-change the stock 2.5 back tire to a 3.0 tire to prevent the engine from "winding out". This is the same as running a slightly lower gear ratio.

Of course, since it lacked a variator, the low end left something to be desired...

That`s how most people do it, but porting out the manifold will get better take off and a 1/2 belt will do the same thing as a bigger tire. Drilling 2 baffels from the pipe helps and air box mods on a spree dont work today