Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

eclark5483 wrote:Got bored and decided to do some math.. I was pondering the air box lid and decided to calculate the volume differences between what Ultraliner uses (2-20mm holes) and what I currently have (3-3/8in holes). What I discovered was this:

1 3/8 hole=71.28cmm
3 3/8 holes=213cmm
6 3/8 holes=427cmm
9 3/8 holes=639cmm
1 20mm=314cmm
2 20mm=628cmm
3 1"=1518cmm

*cmm=cubic millimeters

This means... if I did my math correct.. I was UNDER the volume that 1 20mm hole provides. If I want to get close to that same mark of 314cmm using a 3/8 bit, I need more like 5 holes. That will give me a volume of 356.4cmm. I'd need like 9 holes to get close to his 628cmm mark....hmm..

I never even though of working out the added volume of my 2x 20mm holes in the airbox lid. Your math checks out with me and further backs up why covering up one of my holes has no detrimental effect to the way the scooter runs.

I'm gonna get a conduit plug from work and permanently blank one of them off for summer

MrJumps wrote:viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12364

Read up on this post.

Very interesting argument in that post.. gonna go out on a whim here and say JJ is wrong, and bear is kind of a *.

Also if you are trying to find sensitive numbers like this and get accurate results why are you guessing on what the cureent tank has in it. Train it, it takes 10 minutes at most. Pull the fuel line and vacume line off the carb, use a syringe to apply vaccume to the line and drain the gas out. Premix an accurate amount then try. Just guessing is making your math skew away from the actual numbers.

I am assuming you are referring to like what was talked about here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12364&start=90#p287875

Makes sense to me!

As to why I am guessing what the current tank has, it's because I don't want to oversaturate again. So I'm adding best guess amounts that would take it down to minimum 40:1 territory if the pump actually does 70:1, might go 8 or 9ml instead of 6-7 just to play it safe, otherwise, I wouldn't play that guessing game normally.

The pump runs at around 70:1 but is linear to a curve if your plug chopping you would geta dry plug probably showing you are lean at the current and last mix you ran. Are you plug choping or brining the bike to idle then riding it right after the pull? Because I could my plugs show rich but if I kill the bike after hitting wot they show the true burn not the after coating of the oil that wasnt and hasnt burned off being sucked back into the bore on deceleration.

I'd do a plug chop, but I don't have extra plugs to spare, I will get on that.

There is alot of varibles to this, its not just slap oil in the tank and run it, dont change anything else. You should be fine at 64:1 if your math is right.

Cheers - Jumps

You would think I would be fine... heck I THOUGHT I WOULD BE FINE at 64:1, but obviously I wasn't. I got plug fowling. No reason at this point to think that trying the same thing over again and expecting different results has ever worked for anybody. WHY it happened is anybodies guess at this point.. Could the "IOWA" Spree's have a different pump then a regular? Perhaps a restricted constant flow? I'm showing 2 different part numbers, the bottom one was replaced for whatever reason.



Bottom line at this point, 64:1 doesn't work for me (your results of course my vary), I am not at all comfortable with 128:1 but it does work. So best course for me anyway, is shoot for the middle at 96:1. That will give me a high volume of 36.5:1 when the pump linear increases to MAYBE 50:1, and a low of 41.5:1 minimum. Maybe this is all wrong, guess I'll find out won't I? Taz was gracious enough to send me another BBK should I be completely wrong. Let's just all cross our fingers that I won't have to use it.

So Jumps, question for you. Suppose I wanna go ahead and just delete that stupid pump. I think I can get my boy to understand 4oz every gallon, and OBVIOUSLY Running it with just plain gas is a no no so it will need some type of premix anyway... What size of plug? Where do I buy it from, a link would be very very helpful at this point. I don't wanna have to do any kind of drilling or such to the engine just in case I do need to remove the BBK because of my son and premix issues.

Well as far as I know the af16/18 oil pump plugs fit but let me ask someone that will know and ill get back to you with a link or two. You will need a few washers to to make a oil plug holder.


Also the reason I am saying to plug chop is because when you idle down your plug is gonna get oil on it after riding, you always have oil in the crank area getting sloshed around at idle and it always looks wet. Now if you plug chop and look at the plug you wont see little to any oil on it if your low on your oil figures if your over you may see some extra but it burns it at high rpm, then when you engine break on the dyno it pulls some pulses from the exhaust back through so now you have unburned oil coming back into the bore too.

Well apon further reasearch there is no pump plugs made. Rumor was vtcycles did at one point but I dont see it on their cite and I yried calling. Now I have a pump left over from my build. Ill pm you.

Got it, messaged you back, thanks.

Ultraliner wrote:

eclark5483 wrote:Got bored and decided to do some math.. I was pondering the air box lid and decided to calculate the volume differences between what Ultraliner uses (2-20mm holes) and what I currently have (3-3/8in holes). What I discovered was this:

1 3/8 hole=71.28cmm
3 3/8 holes=213cmm
6 3/8 holes=427cmm
9 3/8 holes=639cmm
1 20mm=314cmm
2 20mm=628cmm
3 1"=1518cmm

*cmm=cubic millimeters

This means... if I did my math correct.. I was UNDER the volume that 1 20mm hole provides. If I want to get close to that same mark of 314cmm using a 3/8 bit, I need more like 5 holes. That will give me a volume of 356.4cmm. I'd need like 9 holes to get close to his 628cmm mark....hmm..

I never even though of working out the added volume of my 2x 20mm holes in the airbox lid. Your math checks out with me and further backs up why covering up one of my holes has no detrimental effect to the way the scooter runs.

I'm gonna get a conduit plug from work and permanently blank one of them off for summer

Crazy huh? Take 3-3/8th holes and drill them in a circle/close triangle, then drill just 1-20mm hole right next to it, just by looking at it and measuring, you would think the 3 holes have more volume, but when you do the actual math, you find out just 1 20mm hole has way more. Kind of blew my mind when I did the math. I was like "WELL SHlT I WAS WAY OFF!!"

Just so everyone knows what Taz sent me, and Taz can confirm. I now have a #92 main jet, and a #38 pilot that will be getting put into the Spree. Oil pump/premix will be different this next run as well. Jumps will be providing the modified pump and I will mix 32:1 in the tank and we will calculate stoich from there. This will be a DEFINITIVE test for EVERYBODY once completed. Once again, thank you Taz, Jumps, Ultraliner, Meatball, and anybody else who has helped to nail this down.

Also want to point out, the "IOWA" edition Spree, seems to be the BEST candidate to run these tests on. The Iowa edition has the most restrictions of any other type of Spree. What all of these restrictions are, seems to still remain a mystery at this point. I feel once an "IOWA" edition has been optimized for BBK, this information can be carried over to everybody else so that they too can get their Spree to run super awesome with the BBK,GEAR, MLM trio.

Ain't gonna worry about anything too much this week though. The guys at SS C&C are busy at the fair, the Spree is in the shop so we can't use it at the Clay County Event center, but no biggy, the grounds at the event center ATM are filled with visitors to the annual fair. Just enjoying this week with both of my brats at the fair. Will get to the Spree later.



BTW, in case you are wondering what my favorite shirt reads...

Explain to me again how youll change the pilot jet in the stock Spree carb?

Heres the answer to a Spree oil plug. You have to use washers to hold it down. The old oil pump mounting bolt can hold the washers. In my area, I could only find these in stock at Advance Auto Parts. I tried O'reilly's and Napa but they didn't have them.

Meatball wrote:Explain to me again how youll change the pilot jet in the stock Spree carb?

I'm gonna leave that up to Stan to do. I'll screw that all up.

EDIT: Just got a message from Taz, he says:

use a pair of vice grips and clamp at the base of the pilot. Then turn it to the left and right as you pull it out.

Going by the guide in the wiki, it talks about heating the carb with a blow dryer/hot air gun. Place a proper sized drill bit down the shaft so you don't squeeze that brass, and pop it in. This is point of no return. I messaged Taz to see if he has any instructions on how to properly change it out, haven't gotten a response yet. As for the pump, Jumps is sending me one and did the grinding for me, that way all we have to do is swap them out. Talked with Shawn a couple hours ago, and we are going to abandon the air box all together. Yes it DOES lower stoich and helps those reeds resonate, and in a normal condition is just fine, but the Spree wants to, and needs to breathe. It produces it's best horsepower when it runs free air. So I went ahead and Amazon Primed' that angled one you linked to and we will test that .vs free air with the new jets and see what impact it has.

Also, I got ahold of my step-dad and I'm gonna have him come out with me to yell out temps from the laser on the cylinder head. He normally calls out bingo numbers at the senior center so I told him I have a job for him putting his number calling and mouth to good use.

I plan on doing a bit of endurance testing this next round to see how long we can do a WOT. Trying to decide on a cut off range for heat on the cylinder head. I'm thinking 350-360 ?? Anybody have suggestions? Obviously it should get just a tad hotter then it normally would since the rings and walls on the piston haven't been broken in yet, but we will have the fans going and will ease it back if it gets into a scary enough range.

The only time I here a guy say put that mouth to use....

340 be the hottest you wanna go her probably

Also for adjusting you pilot circuit your gonna wanna ask around if anyone hase any scrapted carbs with broken flanges and stuff like that for extra jets to play with.

Guys, ran into a snag, need an intake ring, need a source for this part, else one of you have one you can send me?

http://postimg.org/image/95heb68ab

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-NQ50-SA50 ... 3l&vxp=mtr

Better jump on this one...newly listed