Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

Greetings:

Good point on gasket sealing. Book says not to re-use head gasket, especially. I'm guessing it's been done more than a few times by Forum denizens, with fair results. A lot depends on the care taken during disassembly. I've made it a habit to lightly coat all my paper gaskets with high-temp grease whenever I put stuff together. I've been able to disassemble even the finicky rear transmission case without leakage.

The grease performs at least 3 functions:

1. It holds them in place while you line up the dowel pins and bolt holes.
B. It begins the saturation process that the oil held within completes, and'
3. It makes them a lot less likely to shred upon removal next time.

Anyway, jist ta test if the exhaust port carbon was the problem, I see no harm in an attempted reassembly and compression check.

Wheelman-111 wrote:Anyway, jist ta test if the exhaust port carbon was the problem, I see no harm in an attempted reassembly and compression check.

Yes, as long as the entire gasket is there he should be able to run it enough for the test, if not then the worst that will happen is he will have a little extra oil/gas come out on the cases (but who can really tell on a 2 stroke )?

If you can keep from tearing the cylinder gasket, there's a chance. Who knows, Head gasket just might hold good enough for a test. If it does, and evidence is that the exhaust clean worked, just replace the head gasket to make sure you have no compression leaks and scoot on down the road. One thing about it, nothing ventured, nothing gained. It won't cost anything to do it, and labor is not that much. Mine is free to myself, but I'm thinking about charging some goldbricker friends.

That transmission gasket is a tricky one if it's been xxx years since factory and never been off. I had a slight damage on the SR cover pull, but it will live. It will get the grease treatment when I replace the belt, forthcoming... after I resolve the exhaust problem.

Eliteguy sez:

(but who can really tell on a 2 stroke )?

I wake up every day thinking I've gottem figured out. Then go to bed scratching my head.

Lunytune wrote:Eliteguy sez:
Quote:
(but who can really tell on a 2 stroke )?
I wake up every day thinking I've gottem figured out. Then go to bed scratching my head.

I meant who would notice if there was a little more oil on the cases. but yea, there is a lot of that, especially when you cross the decades and look at the different technologies.

Lunytune wrote:Who knows, Head gasket just might hold good enough for a test.

I have never had to replace one on a moped.

Lunytune wrote:If you can keep from tearing the cylinder gasket

even if the base gasket is torn, I have gotten them to work well enough until Honda gets a new one in for me. It just has to all be there and then you line it up right, the compression from the cylinder will do the rest. I use a high temp sealant most the time anyway.

Lunytune wrote:That transmission gasket is a tricky one if it's been xxx years since factory and never been off.

This is important because that is not just a seal but a spacer, so be sure it is right.

eliteguy50 wrote:

Lunytune wrote:That transmission gasket is a tricky one if it's been xxx years since factory and never been off.

This is important because that is not just a seal but a spacer, so be sure it is right.

It's all there, just part stuck to the case, but most of it to the cover. It was so tight, rubber mallet would not pop it loose, had to so some gentle prying.

Lunytune wrote:It was so tight, rubber mallet would not pop it loose, had to so some gentle prying.

that is why tabs are molded into it.

eliteguy50 wrote:

Lunytune wrote:It was so tight, rubber mallet would not pop it loose, had to so some gentle prying.

that is why tabs are molded into it.

Yeah, at least I didn't have to drive a screwdriver or wood chisel down between the two parts as I have done on some other items. That's a definite way to destroy the gasket.

Funy thing, the cover is two part. Back part was rubber, came loose easy. It was the front case that is cardboard and stuck like bandaid.

Hey all, we got the bike re-assembled and fresh fuel added. TADA! it worked pretty well, might need a little tlc but its atleist street worthy (was). after i drove about 100 feet the power dissapated . When i looked down to check it out i could hear air sucking into the carb. s***, the screw from the carb to the intake manifold had stripped out. * do i do now, heli coil? new carb? I would be a bit nervous to drill it out, are carbs aluminum? what if i just filled it with jb weld, jammed in the screw, and clamped it for a night.

YEP! Scooter carburetors are aluminum. I got an exact copy of your carb, stripped hole and all. Shucks, better than the old car carbs which were made out of pot metal. Was it the inside or outside bolt hole? Helicoil is a consideration. Or, if it was the inside hole, there is enough room to JB Weld a nut on the back side. Make sure it is lined up properly by running a bolt through and threading into the nut while you do the gluing. Then you will need a longer bolt when you're done.

But the outside hole doesn't have enough room for a nut. One suggestion is to JB Weld in a threaded stud and put a nut on the outside. Kinda oddball, but you will have saved a carburetor.

Lunytune wrote:YEP! Scooter carburetors are aluminum.

exactly, that means pay attention to the torque specs and don't overtighten. but a friend brought me a carb that he did that to and we were able to grind down a nut to fit on the carb side so a bolt could go through from the manifold side.

eliteguy50 wrote:

Lunytune wrote:YEP! Scooter carburetors are aluminum.

exactly, that means pay attention to the torque specs and don't overtighten. but a friend brought me a carb that he did that to and we were able to grind down a nut to fit on the carb side so a bolt could go through from the manifold side.

Maxhog, are you listening? There may be hope for the outside hole too.
But Gees guy, how much hide did you take off your fingers while grinding on that small nut?

Thankfully, as those who have worked on AF16E know, Honda wised up after many years and encased a steel nut in the carb the way we are talking. Why did it take them so long?

Lunytune wrote: But Gees guy, how much hide did you take off your fingers while grinding on that small nut?

none, I've had a lot of practice

Lunytune wrote:Why did it take them so long?

Lunytune wrote: Honda wised up after many years and encased a steel nut in the carb the way we are talking. Why did it take them so long?

because if it works for assembly in the factory that is what counts for them until sales drop. also, I think the amount of new carbs being sold is a plus in there miond...more profit and more encouragement to get your honda serviced by the dealer. I am not even sure if it was honda who put the steel nut in the carb or if it was just the newer manufacturing practice.

eliteguy50 wrote:because if it works for assembly in the factory that is what counts for them until sales drop. also, I think the amount of new carbs being sold is a plus in there miond...more profit and more encouragement to get your honda serviced by the dealer. I am not even sure if it was honda who put the steel nut in the carb or if it was just the newer manufacturing practice.

I suspect carburetors were outsourced, not made by Honda. I'm looking an early model and a later model that are marked "PA". No Honda mark anywhere.

Greetings:

Lots of ways around this issue. Not long ago I was facing the same issue. Naturally I blame the previous owner...

I used Hardware store 1/4" US 20 Threads Per Inch. 7/16 hex head bolts. I had to drill the insulator and manifold out to 17/64. Then just ran a cheap HF 1/4" tap into the threaded holes of the carb. The bigger diameter makes it (somewhat) harder to strip upon accidental application of prodigious Wheelman strength. That and just being a bit more careful. You only have to squeeze the O-rings after all.

Heli-coils are strong but tend to start to spin if you're repeatedly dismantling. Nuts on the backside are just a lot more work.

Great! looks like its a common thing.

Wheelman-111 wrote:Nuts on the backside are just a lot more work.

Really?, It is the outside screw but it seemed like i could fit a nut on the backside fairly easily, maybe i'll discover something in my investigation. Thanks wheelman for the nice discription, im just gonna print it out and make it my shopping list.
Good to hear they eventually wised up and put in a steel nut. It will save muscle torquing wrench men and stupid PO from this delema.
I'll most likely end up drilling through the carb so i will have something else to fix but i'll give it a try this weekend.
Thanks all