Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

I FINALLY got the Harbor Freight pulley puller, that was ridiculous! Anyways, I now see the spark exciter coil but it is wrapped in a fabric cloth that I cannot pull, it just keeps breaking. I do see two soldered "posts" on the coil which I assume to be the ends but they read open across them which is probably not good (open coil?) I do get continuity between one of the "posts" and the black w/ red wire. Where do I go from here? It doesn't appear that just the exciter coil is replacable since it is mounted on the same plastic that the other coils are mounted to.

I do see two soldered "posts" on the coil which I assume to be the ends but they read open across them which is probably not good (open coil?)

That's not the reading you'd like to see
Only thing I can say is make sure any coating is scraped free, and the soldering looks good underneath at the terminal.

I do get continuity between one of the "posts" and the black w/ red wire.

This reading ruled out the other fixable item - a broken output wire

Good part of all this, is you've ruled out simple stuff that would have wasted the part, and at worst are ready for a replacement stator.

The coil doesn't even necessarily need to be connected at the posts, just be intact, right? It uses electro magnetic fields with the magnet to cut flux lines and induce current in the coil, right? The coil itself has to be bad if I am not getting an induced voltage and therefore spark. So where does one acquire a new stator?

Does anyone know what gauge magnet wire and roughly how many windings the exciter coil is? I think I'll just wind my own. I guess if I knew the gauge I could just wind until I fall between 600-900 ohms per the manual.

DKAudio wrote:Does anyone know what gauge magnet wire and roughly how many windings the exciter coil is? I think I'll just wind my own. I guess if I knew the gauge I could just wind until I fall between 600-900 ohms per the manual.

"magnet wire"???????? Never heard of such a thing.

Bear45-70 wrote:

DKAudio wrote:Does anyone know what gauge magnet wire and roughly how many windings the exciter coil is? I think I'll just wind my own. I guess if I knew the gauge I could just wind until I fall between 600-900 ohms per the manual.

"magnet wire"???????? Never heard of such a thing.

Another term for enamel coated wire.

Probabaly best to measure the wire you have, and look up the gauge. Wire gauge and a resistivity table should get you in the ballpark. Honda has a pretty high variablity allowed for resistance. Also, 600-900 ohms points to thin wire, and a lot of turns required.

For the spark exciter coil, you are looking at 300-400v. I figure you probably know care will go along that winding your coil. There is thin mylar (and other base materials) tape used for insulating taps and layers of windings. Std electrical tape is likely too thick to allow the correct number of turns to fit.

mousewheels wrote:Probabaly best to measure the wire you have, and look up the gauge. Wire gauge and a resistivity table should get you in the ballpark. Honda has a pretty high variablity allowed for resistance. Also, 600-900 ohms points to thin wire, and a lot of turns required.

For the spark exciter coil, you are looking at 300-400v. I figure you probably know care will go along that winding your coil. There is thin mylar (and other base materials) tape used for insulating taps and layers of windings. Std electrical tape is likely too thick to allow the correct number of turns to fit.

wireGaugeTable.gif

I apologize for reviving this thread but I brought the scooter into my basement from being stored for winter. I still am intending on re-winding the exciter coil. Are you saying that they used insulating material between windings on the exciter coil? Why when the wire is already enamel coated? I was planning on winding with similar sized enamel (magnet) wire and then dipping the whole thing in Helmsman Spar Urethane. A lot of people use that for coating coils including myself when I built my Tesla coil.

Also, your chart is for annealed copper wire, not enamel coated wire. I assume adding an enamel coating with change the OD of the wire thus making that chart not entirely accurate? I will see if I can find an enamel coated wire chart.

Thanks

Hi - Glad you are looking to go ahead with this

Also, your chart is for annealed copper wire, not enamel coated wire. I assume adding an enamel coating with change the OD of the wire thus making that chart not entirely accurate? I will see if I can find an enamel coated wire chart.

Yes the wire table is bare copper. Just a rough approximation to the ohms/foot part to get an idea of gauge and how many feet Honda had on there... Agreed, OD will be different for enameled wire.

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Are you saying that they used insulating material between windings on the exciter coil? Why when the wire is already enamel coated? I was planning on winding with similar sized enamel (magnet) wire and then dipping the whole thing in Helmsman Spar Urethane. A lot of people use that for coating coils including myself when I built my Tesla coil.

Hmm - you are correct, 300v is not that high, tape every layer should not be required for insulation reasons.

Good luck, post details and progress. I'm curious to know the what the turns count ends up being

Hi - Glad you are looking to go ahead with this

Also, your chart is for annealed copper wire, not enamel coated wire. I assume adding an enamel coating with change the OD of the wire thus making that chart not entirely accurate? I will see if I can find an enamel coated wire chart.

Yes the wire table is bare copper. Just a rough approximation to the ohms/foot part to get an idea of gauge and how many feet Honda had on there... Agreed, OD will be different for enameled wire.

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Are you saying that they used insulating material between windings on the exciter coil? Why when the wire is already enamel coated? I was planning on winding with similar sized enamel (magnet) wire and then dipping the whole thing in Helmsman Spar Urethane. A lot of people use that for coating coils including myself when I built my Tesla coil.

Hmm - you are correct, 300v is not that high, tape every layer should not be required for insulation reasons.

Good luck, post details and progress. I'm curious to know the what the turns count ends up being

Got the coil apart yesterday. It almost seemed lacquered, I had to cut through the copper and use a hammer and chisel to get the windings apart, there was no clean way to do it. I then measured the wire with a micrometer. I found a chart for enamel coated wire (I assume they just used single build [thinner single coat of enamel] instead of heavy build). Depending on the strand it measured .0046-.005". According to the chart I would guess this is 37 gauge wire. For every 1,000' this gauge should measure 512 ohms! That means there is probably at least 1,250' on this coil! I have a 2,000' spool from Ebay coming my way.

I finished winding my coil yesterday! Came out to be around 770 ohms. I think the 37AWG is a touch larger than the stock wire because the coil did come out to a bigger diameter. I used a treadmill motor that I had to a variable DC power supply to help with the winding, worked out really well. I'm going to try installing it tonight to see if it worked.

Thanks for the pics!

How did you gauge how much wire to put on? By feet, turns or ???

I worked for a place which had a transfomer winder. It looked like a lathe, but had extras. A settable turns counter, and cams which could oscillate the wire feed to lay up nice coils. You did a nice job.

Thanks, I knew the diameter of the old winding and went a little more, came to 770, perfect!


The result...


Started up right away!!! Yes, after sitting for about 7 months, finally! Sorry to say I am looking to sell it now, this scooter has been a pain since I bought it last year. I do want opinions on new scooters, I'll start a thread in another section though. I'm looking at the BMS Pathfinder or Patriot or the SSR Interceptor, all 150CC.