Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

ALOW1 wrote:
First you say that a cat will not work on a 2 stroke motor, so I show you some examples of them. I went with Aprilia because they make scooters and well its a scooter forum.

Now your all like well those are DI (directed injection), which is true but yet they are still 2 strokes.

Now your saying that you cant add a cat to an old style 2 stroke. Yamaha was running cats on their motorcycles in the early 80's. The Kenny Roberts RZ350's had cats on them.

Do some research, there are many many 2 strokes out there that have cats on them.

But these direct injected motors don't run 25:1 or even 100:1 oil in the gas. Closer to 200:1 and that small amount of oil can be dealt with for a cat. But 25 or even 50 to 1, not gonna work, too much oil. So retro fitting a cat on a middle 80's technology engine is not gonna work. You don't comprend what you read very well.

Bear45-70 wrote:

ALOW1 wrote:
You don't comprend what you read very well.

Wow! He just showed you a 1980s carburated 2-stroke with catalytic converters and you still won't accept that it can be done. I guess I don't "comprend" very well either.

Slow wrote:

Bear45-70 wrote:

ALOW1 wrote:
You don't comprend what you read very well.

Wow! He just showed you a 1980s carburated 2-stroke with catalytic converters and you still won't accept that it can be done. I guess I don't "comprend" very well either.

That would be a direct injected 2 stroke which was not the standard 2 stroke of the 80's as the Honda engines were. They are NOT THE SAME TECHNOLOGY. You are comparing apples and oranges here. Direct injected 2 stroke only put fuel into the cylinder after the exhaust port is closed, there by preventing unburned fuel and oil from entering the exhaust and those unburned fuel and oil coat everything. I was working on 2 stokes as the technology changed and one was old school, like 2 stroke were for 80+ years before and the direct injection was brand spanking new and still working out the bugs. Of course you are gonna believe anything I say even though you are wrong. So guess what, stay ignorant. I'm done here.

We all know 2-strokes smoke. The RZ riders claim an increase of 20% hp without the cat. Not a great system and I sure would not want to lose 20% of the Spree's meager power, but to claim it can't be done when it already has (cat on a 2-stroke) is just silly.

If you really want to be green, get a Vectrix. $10,000 and NO emissions. At least not from the bike. How you generate the electricity is another question.

Bear45-70 wrote:
Well first off a cat will not work on a two stroke due to the unburned oil in the exhaust. The oil will coat everything in the cat and do worse than a non-cat would.

Strange, since there are 2 strokes out there with cats on them

Bear45-70 wrote:
I agree with everything except the cat with a 2 stroke. If it could be done don't you think the outboard manufactures would have don't it rather than go to the heavier 4 strokes for all their small engines?

Its obvious that it can be done.

Bear45-70 wrote:
But these direct injected motors don't run 25:1 or even 100:1 oil in the gas. Closer to 200:1 and that small amount of oil can be dealt with for a cat. But 25 or even 50 to 1, not gonna work, too much oil. So retro fitting a cat on a middle 80's technology engine is not gonna work. You don't comprend what you read very well.

I comprehend what I read just fine, you're the one that cant even comprehend what your writing.

There were a couple of examples put out there of 2 strokes with cats, you said it could not be done. I'm not on here to bicker with with people about something as stupid as this topic has turned out to be. If you knew that it could be done on a 2 stroke than why did you say it couldn't?

After the first time I pointed out that it could be done you could of just said something like "I'm sorry, cats will work on a 2 stroke as long as it is DI motor", but no you have to keep arguing.

You seem like a fairly smart person but you have that I'm always right attitude, at least that's how you come across to me. I could go on and on as I enjoy a good discussion like this one though.

I'm not even going to get into the oil ratio's on the RZ's. You also got to remember that I have an RD so I'm not stupid when it comes to those motors.

Anyways Bear, I'm done here. I do not want this to get out of hand and I do not want any hard feelings from you or any others on this board.

that was actually extremely helpful as I didn't know of the different oil in gas ratios different scooters/bikes had. Also, I had no idea oil was an issue with cat conv. For that info, thanks. As for the animosity with not being practical in losing power and what not, that's your opinion and, from my stand point, made you sound like an idiot (no offense, just telling ya my impression). Once you told me why it's not practical(oil in cat rather than losing power), then that was actually very insightful and I appreciate that. thanks

I may just toss this scoot and get a mediocre motorcycle with with a cat. Or even go for that electric scooter... although 10k is quite a price, but they're claiming a penny a mile with it, so that's enough to raise a brow. And I'm not entirely sure about the reliability with the electric. There's plenty of mechanics for a fuel powered. A lot of memories on my lil elite though.

You elite puts out less crap than the factories that make batteries for EVs and hybrids.

Kenny_McCormic wrote:You elite puts out less crap than the factories that make batteries for EVs and hybrids.

Yes, you should look at it as the Reduce in Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. Why fan the flames of a consumerist culture by buying something that really isn't needed in the first place, namely another scooter?

noiseguy wrote:

Kenny_McCormic wrote:You elite puts out less crap than the factories that make batteries for EVs and hybrids.

Reduce, Reuse, Recycle.

I was going to keep my nose out of this thread, but I'd like to add something:

Everybody who buys a used car, 'cycle, scooter - whatever - is involved in one of the best examples of recycling you could name. Think about it:

How many man hours, and how many components, combined with the resources and energy does it take to manufacture a single scooter? A hundred? A thousand? Ten thousand?

How much oil is expended to ship those cycles from Nippon to the US? How much more oil is used for the trucks to transport 'em to BigBob's HondaSaki Motors?

Break it down: metal, plastic, wire, aluminum, steel, cadmium, paints. Throw that sucker in the landfill, it's all wasted. But when you buy it, whether to rebuild or to part out, you're recycling. You're conserving resources.

Recycling old s*** and giving it a new life is not only worthwhile - it's commendable.

Just my 2 cents and worth about as much.

CaptDan

I agree with what your saying.

BUT heading back to the topic real quick, Putting a catalytic converter on a spree is unrealistic. But before deciding to sell your spree, i would try switching to honda Gn2 oil.

, i would try switching to honda Gn2 oil.

already ordered when it first came up

How many man hours, and how many components, combined with the resources and energy does it take to manufacture a single scooter? A hundred? A thousand? Ten thousand?

How much oil is expended to ship those cycles from Nippon to the US? How much more oil is used for the trucks to transport 'em to BigBob's HondaSaki Motors?

Break it down: metal, plastic, wire, aluminum, steel, cadmium, paints. Throw that sucker in the landfill, it's all wasted. But when you buy it, whether to rebuild or to part out, you're recycling. You're conserving resources.

Recycling old s*** and giving it a new life is not only worthwhile - it's commendable. Razz

Just my 2 cents and worth about as much. Rolling Eyes

ahh, I understand, BUT how about from this perspective...

You'll never close down the factory that's trying to maintain itself and keep it's reputation and so on. So if you were talking about all the work put into a new scooter/machine and the factory creates so much "environmental whatever" that it doesn't matter.

Well, say we had a graph and the slope of the graph is the waste from the factory. It stays constant as a straight line. Then you have what the factory puts out and these could be seen as tiny independent factories except, in this case, no regulation on their exhaust (most factories have something comparable to a catalytic converter on their smoke stacks(I'm thinking of power plants and have no idea about vehicles).

If the factory is constant no matter what( could be variable based on supply and demand) but the vehicles coming out add or subtract +1,+2, or +3 and so on, then it would make sense to upgrade to something cleaner as the factory and its surrounding operations are there regardless.


I guess the whole environment deal is a moot point depending on the day and personality of the person, but to me, if we're dumping s*** in the waters that affects us... excuse me, our future offspring... Then it's a big deal in my eyes. People say "who cares about the animals", and all I have to say is that we share a lot in common with these animals and whatever happens to them is a good determinate of what could happen to us.

To fill in the gaps here with that last idea... As you develop, you have critical periods where certain areas are more prone to change(mostly and always by the environment). For example, it's easier to learn a language when you're young up to a certain age. This is a critical period in development. Also, physically and physiologically, as an embryo you have critical periods through the different stages of development. An example of a toxin like DDT(pesticide that has been found to inhibit testosterone production) would act on the embryonic gonads and, in the future, you would be feminized(you may have none or just a severely reduced * as an example that's most apparent). While DDT is intended for mosquitoes, and is supposed to be harmless to humans, as embryos, we were all once the size of a mosquito and are definitely at the whim of what's in our environment.

Smoking?? Ever hear about how pregnant woman shouldn't smoke because of birth defects? This follows the same concept. Lung cancer and smoking is an obvious correlation that's been proven. So, what's the difference between LA and what people spoke and researched about China during the olympics??


For those that are still reading, I used to not be like this and thought environmentalists were kinda loony. But, with what I've seen and learned through my lab and various classes, there's a huge connection between everything. So whether you believe god spontaneously created you then decided to use a rib in making your significant other OR that everything is conserved and we came from the very planet we inhabit/live on... ...You believe you either Came into this world OR You came out of this world.

Either way, choosing the latter doesn't scream "I don't believe in god" and have no faith (I believe, but that belief is rather vague), but rather a recognition of where you came from and what you do to that, you do to yourself.


Anyhow, I'm done. sorry bout the length

tree-truffle wrote:

, i would try switching to honda Gn2 oil.

So if you were talking about all the work put into a new scooter/machine and the factory creates so much "environmental whatever" that it doesn't matter.

Anyhow, I'm done. sorry bout the length

Interesting perspective. I agree with much of what you said, and disagree with only some of it.

The point I was trying to make earlier is, there are MANY things already created, with energy spent, and waste having resulted accordingly. By investing in those extant creations, there CAN be a direct correlation to a reduction in demand for new things. Along those same lines, recycling materials also plays a similar role in conservation.

Remember also, that the US - though voracious in resource consumption -leads the world in environmental controls. I truly hope some of the planet's BIGGEST polluters, countries most of us purchase goods from, step up to the plate and establish more robust measures to limit the negative byproducts of their own industries and activities.

And I'll leave it at that.

CaptDan