Videos of aero problem

snikro · Post by **snikro** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:34 pm

Nevermind I figured it out eventually. The clip was on the secondmost bottom setting, and I moved it down to the bottom. I put everything back together started it and readjusted the mixture screw and idle. When I rode it the problems were exactly the same, what I changed did absolutely nothing. If that's the case maybe I should put the clip back to where it was cause I'm probably running rich now...

At this point I'm completely out of ideas.

snikro · Post by **snikro** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:05 pm

Well now I'm just thinking it might be a fuel problem. Like, maybe a blockage in the line, or something preventing enough volume of fuel from getting to the carb when it needs it (accel and speed) cause its fine at idle, but after you've been moving it starts to starve and backfire (lean), and if you let it idle I guess maybe fuel accumulates again and when you start back up again it's better.

How would I check for blockages in the fuel line? Could it be a clogged fuel filter as well? I see two hoses going from the tank to carb, which one would it be to check? Also, is gas going to come out if I take it off?

spajohn · Post by **spajohn** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:40 pm

snikro wrote:Well now I'm just thinking it might be a fuel problem. Like, maybe a blockage in the line, or something preventing enough volume of fuel from getting to the carb when it needs it (accel and speed) cause its fine at idle, but after you've been moving it starts to starve and backfire (lean), and if you let it idle I guess maybe fuel accumulates again and when you start back up again it's better.

How would I check for blockages in the fuel line? Could it be a clogged fuel filter as well? I see two hoses going from the tank to carb, which one would it be to check? Also, is gas going to come out if I take it off?

There is a fuel filter in the tank, you should be able to see it sticking up, it's round about 2"long and the size of a pencil, when you take off the gas cap. Use a small flashlight, not a match. If there's a lot of crud around it, that could be a clue. If it's gone and you have junk over the hole, you've found your problem.
The two lines from the tank are actually coming out of the fuel valve, which is connected to the tank. One line is a vacuum line that opens the valve and the other is the gas line.
Have a rag or a cup handy and take them both off at the carb. You'll know which one's the gas line because it will dribble just the amount of gas that's in the line and stop. The valve is normally closed. The other line is the vacuum line (no gas in it) that works off of engine vacuum, and if you suck on it slightly(make sure it's the vacuum line) the valve will open and gas should pour out of the gas line (make sure you have something to catch the gas). You can drain your tank this way if you want to take the valve off and inspect it.
PLEASE do this in a well ventilated area or outdoors away from any flame or heaters or smokers, etc. You would be amazed at how fast your entire bike can go up in flames. Have a contingency plan.
Chances are that your fuel delivery is fine, but it's good to eliminate the lines and filter as the problem. Make sure the vacuum line is on nice and tight and is in good shape, if you have a vacuum leak it may not open the valve and you won't get gas. This will make sense after you suck on it and see how it works.
You may want to check to see if your gas cap is vented. If the vent is blocked, it could cause the symptoms you have. Easy way to check is take it for a ride with the cap loose, but be careful of sloshing gas around.
You may eventually have to get into your carb and clean it, there are detailed instructions in the manual, basically take it apart (this is a very simple carb-show no fear) and clean out the orfices, make sure that the float doesn't leak, etc. Compressed air is great if you have it, otherwise one of those canned air things for cleaning dust out of computers is very handy. If you have some crud blocking an orfice it could cause the symptoms you have.
Are you running an air filter? If you took it off it might be running lean.
If setting the needle richer didn't do the trick, set it back to original and continue looking. You don't want to change too many things at once.
Again, good luck!
JohnP

Kenny_McCormic · Post by **Kenny_McCormic** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:07 pm

Plug chop.

spajohn · Post by **spajohn** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:18 pm

Kenny_McCormic wrote:Plug chop.

Kenny:
I like your minimalism, you just pop up and say 'plug chop'.
May I suggest that you shorten this further and just say 'plop'? Could be a good tag line for you, like 'Do you feel lucky' or 'I'll be back'.
JohnP

Dac · Post by **Dac** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:22 pm

i still say his screen name should be changed to Kenny_McPlugChop

Kenny_McCormic · Post by **Kenny_McCormic** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:45 pm

No its just the fact this guy seems to have no idea how rich/lean he is running therefore plug chop it.

Dac · Post by **Dac** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:47 pm

hey im not making fun of you. like you always say you can tell allot by the color of the plug.

Kenny_McCormic · Post by **Kenny_McCormic** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:08 pm

Talking to the guy above you, I know you say it out of respect for my plug reading abilities.

spajohn wrote:
Kenny_McCormic wrote:Plug chop.
Kenny:
I like your minimalism, you just pop up and say 'plug chop'.
May I suggest that you shorten this further and just say 'plop'? Could be a good tag line for you, like 'Do you feel lucky' or 'I'll be back'.
JohnP

Although plop would save banwidth it would be somewhat of an inside joke that would further confuse people not familiar with 2 stroke thoery. I will elaborate further on the procedure if whoever I tell to plug chop doesnt understand, but "plug chop" seems to be short and understandable enough by most people that they can handle looking it up on their own.

spajohn · Post by **spajohn** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:26 pm

Kenny_McCormic wrote:Talking to the guy above you, I know you say it out of respect for my plug reading abilities.
spajohn wrote:
Kenny_McCormic wrote:Plug chop.
Kenny:
I like your minimalism, you just pop up and say 'plug chop'.
May I suggest that you shorten this further and just say 'plop'? Could be a good tag line for you, like 'Do you feel lucky' or 'I'll be back'.
JohnP
Although plop would save banwidth it would be somewhat of an inside joke that would further confuse people not familiar with 2 stroke thoery. I will elaborate further on the procedure if whoever I tell to plug chop doesnt understand, but "plug chop" seems to be short and understandable enough by most people that they can handle looking it up on their own.

Hey, no offense---I'm just goofin' on ya, don't take me serious. I was just comparing my longwinded overblown missive to your two word one. It is a good diagnostic, I agree. We're all here trying to help, and in my case maybe even learn something.
JohnP

Kenny_McCormic · Post by **Kenny_McCormic** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:37 pm

K just that i have had people tell me i was a complete moron before when I have said that.

snikro · Post by **snikro** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:15 pm

I would but as I said before it's not possible for me to do a plug chop.

1) Nowhere where I can ride for a mile with the throttle plastered down. There would be, but my street is too small and the only place is a busy road and I know that the scooter will not maintain any speed for long, and will be then going along at like 10-15mph, not good on a narrow road notorious for accidents where people are always coming up on you doing at least 35-40, it's just not smart.
2) If I keep the throttle held down all the way, in a minute it loses power and if you keep holding it eventually the engine will die, not good because the battery has to be jumped to start the engine.

I also know it's lean at higher rpm/load because it likes to backfire.

Any workaround ideas would be appreciated though

snikro · Post by **snikro** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:59 pm

I was just thinking could it possible be an ignition timing issue? I've heard that backfiring is also caused by that... It does sometimes miss/erratic when idling by itself, so would it help if I took a vid of that as well?

spajohn · Post by **spajohn** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:19 am

snikro wrote:I was just thinking could it possible be an ignition timing issue? I've heard that backfiring is also caused by that... It does sometimes miss/erratic when idling by itself, so would it help if I took a vid of that as well?

Before you dive into timing, did you ever clean your carb? Junk in the carb happens much more often than the timing going out.
I'd go through some carb maintenance first, it sounds like a fuel issue to me.
And if you haven't done it already, print out the manual and read it in bed before you go to sleep, it will help you become one with yor scoot. There's some good troubleshooting guides in there.
JohnP

snikro · Post by **snikro** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:31 am

Would running a few capfuls of seafoam in the gas help to do things like clear out the fuel lines and stuff on that end? I've heard it works wonders.