Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

Doesn't take much to clog that teeny little orifice in the idle circuit. You may have had it clear and sneezed and it could clog up you will get it up and running no prob, now you know what causes it. There might have been some junk left in the line, which is most likely cleared out now.

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So I did yet another carb cleaning. I definitely cleaned the pilot jet properly. I put it back together and went for a ride. After the test run the scooter would not start easily. It is flooding. I have to hold the throttle open to start it. I tried adjusting the carb based on the service manual. Not quite running perfect though on the plus side I am showing 31 mph on the speedometer on the flat.

You show test the bystarter... it open an additional passage that slowly closes as once the bike starts and feeds 12v to the bystarter needle.

It is not hard to test... take off and apply 12 volts. Be patience and watch for it to move out.

If it works properly and your carb is dialed in... the scoot will start with a slight tap or a single kick .. no throttle.

when the scooter is cold no throttle. if you do use the throttle it f....up the chock.. when worn you need a little throttle to get it started...
swimmingfree

I have not had the scooter running for very long but it seems that it starts fine when the engine is completely cold. This indicates the bystarter is working correctly, I believe. If it is warm and is started it is flooding I think. It will not start. If I wide open the throttle it will start, but it is not instant.

swimmingfree wrote:when the scooter is cold no throttle. if you do use the throttle it f....up the chock.. when worn you need a little throttle to get it started...
swimmingfree

So you are saying that when warm it needs a little throttle because the bystarter is not functioning at that point? I will try a little throttle tomorrow when it is warm rather than wide open to see if it still starts that way..

If it starts when cold with ease your bystarter needle is up and your choke circuit is open.

Looks like I read your post wrong sorry...

After about 30 seconds while running... it should close the circuit.

WOT to start after warm... makes me think something is out of line. Remember I am a noob though, if the throttle needle and throttle body is down, then I would think maybe your throttle needle might be high or your bystarter is broke / stuck open enriching the circuit with the throttle is closed on a warm engine.

Hope you still check the bystarter... if this ends up the problem, it will make adjusting your carb hard.

Good luck.

Greetings:

Generally the bystarter system works pretty well, but it's not computer-controlled. If you don't install the insulating cover, the bystarter begins to retract (to its "Enrich" position) as soon as the engine is turned off. Then if you try to restart the warm engine, it gets full-rich mixture which it cannot ignite. You open the throttle a little in that situation to allow more air through while cranking.

Even with the cover on, the bystarter goes to default quicker than the engine cools.

swflcarl wrote:If it starts when cold with ease your bystarter needle is up and your choke circuit is open.

......

WOT to start after warm... makes me think something is out of line. Remember I am a noob though, if the throttle needle and throttle body is down, then I would think maybe your throttle needle might be high or your bystarter is broke / stuck open enriching the circuit with the throttle is closed on a warm engine.

....

For grins I got up this morning and it started right up with just a quick blip of the switch. Clearly the bystarter is engaging properly but I was thinking the same two things you mention. I am leaning towards the throttle needle position because clearly the bystarter is disengaging after a warm up because I can hear the rev change after about 30 seconds.

The needle position could be wrong two ways correct? Could be too lean or too rich. If it was too open too soon then that would be a problem at innitial start up as well. I have no problem with my cold engine start up at all. I think I need to make sure that after warm up that if I restart it that a little extra throttle might start it up easily.

Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:

Generally the bystarter system works pretty well, but it's not computer-controlled. If you don't install the insulating cover, the bystarter begins to retract (to its "Enrich" position) as soon as the engine is turned off. Then if you try to restart the warm engine, it gets full-rich mixture which it cannot ignite. You open the throttle a little in that situation to allow more air through while cranking.

Even with the cover on, the bystarter goes to default quicker than the engine cools.

I do have the cover over the bystarter. What you describe is exactly what is happening I believe. So is this normal?

Greetings:

Yeah, I think it's normal. It's been a while since I've run a stock carb, but a little throttle for a warm engine is necessary even with the OKO and other carbs.

Yup sometimes a little throttle can be needed when it warm. If your idle air is set right on the money it may start with just the button. There is an other test that you can do with the by starter, in the manual it shows applying air or vacuum to the air hole that feeds the bystarter . the port on the intake of the carb should pass air or not pass air according to the position of the by starter. I've done this test with a small piece of hose and blowing through it. The by starter can be moving out like it should but still not be doing its job. Mine moved out properly and passed the test but was leaking air where the wires go in and such which was hard to diagnose, I replaced the by starter and it works the finest kind.

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patthesoundguy wrote:Yup sometimes a little throttle can be needed when it warm. If your idle air is set right on the money it may start with just the button. There is an other test that you can do with the by starter, in the manual it shows applying air or vacuum to the air hole that feeds the bystarter . the port on the intake of the carb should pass air or not pass air according to the position of the by starter. I've done this test with a small piece of hose and blowing through it. The by starter can be moving out like it should but still not be doing its job. Mine moved out properly and passed the test but was leaking air where the wires go in and such which was hard to diagnose, I replaced the by starter and it works the finest kind.

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Interesting. I shall have to read the manual on it.

No something is wrong with the carburation. If I go out in the morning it starts right up but after a short ride the engine starts running too rich. If I shut it down and re start it, it needs to have the throttle wide open to start. If I give it a little gas instead I actually spell gas and will even get some fuel dripping down the engine from somewhere. I do not have gas leaking out of the carb overflow when the bike sits. I did test the petcock and it shuts off properly.

I am wondering about the bystarter and the throttle needle position. So could the needle in the wrong position cause a flooding situation?

Hey Duo.... on my '85 Aero the previous owner had the main needle to the richest plus some shim washers (more rich like Warren Buffet). Changed it back to factory settings (per the service manual) and inconsistent running went away.

You may be fine on the needle... easy enough to check. As before if your bystater needle assembly does not close (push out) you will be rich all the time after warm up. Did you check it - its pretty easy to check.

I just want to start crossing stuff off the list. If you are spilling gas... then maybe your bowl float / plunger is not seating good. You can chuck up a q-tip in your drill and some rubbing compound to polish the seat. Some here have used toothpaste for the polishing compound. This weekend was getting gas flow out the Gyro carb once plumbed - polished the old seat and now works good as new.

You would only spill while riding (no bueno) and shortly after - as the vacuum is being pull on the pet-coc'k. Gas delivery to the carb will stop after the engine stops.

Good luck... let us know your progress.

Best Regards... from the board's super-noob.