Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

1man8scoots wrote:120 is getting low on a vertical. It'll still run but it's not giving it it's all. Horizontals, some, are a whole other ball park, some can run as low as 90 and be considered good.

Gotcha. Thanks for your help. Tomorrow's agenda is to throw the motor up on the bench, and do some pressure testing. God I hope something shows up for me!

The end of the hose as threads and an o-ring. No other adapter is being used. The tread area of the tester is a littler shorter than the plug, so technically it is not filling as much volume as the plug would. I can try it with the longer adapter to see what changes.

I'll check it again warm, but what difference is there by kicking or electric start?

As far as the valve goes, it is tightened in there, I can suck through it from the other end, and can't blow back through so I guess that is working correctly.

Ok, just warmed it up to about 160 degrees.

Without long reach adapter - tested both with electric start and kicking - 140-145psi
With long reach adapter - tested both with electric start and kicking - 130-135psi.]


Threaded hose section vs long reach adapter



The 110 octane was previous to this assembly. I have not used it since this current assembly. It was 110 unleaded Sunoco (if I remember right) This current state has been on 93 Shell only. 32:1 oil

I've been messing around with this, and trying to monitor everything that is going on.

First, I had a 124mj. It was def rich, but would still get hot. I then put a 112 in to see what would happen. First off, the bike is MUCH faster with the smaller jet. It rips around pretty good.

With either jet in, what I have noticed is

If I am cruising just below 1/2 throttle, at say 7500-8200 RPM, the temps stick around 280-300. Once I actually hit about 1/2 throttle, the bike wants to go. It doesn't really like to cruise at 1/2, the rpm wants to climb and the bike wants to go faster. If I go 1/2-3/4 throttle, and the rpms stay above 9000rpm consistently, the temps start to rise. If I'm running 3/4-1 throttle, the rpms run 9000ish-10K+, the temps start to jump like 311,326,346,359,367,379,388, and I'm sure they will keep going if I didn't back off. This can happen in about 1/2 mile. If I back down the RPMS to that 8k range, the temps start dropping down again.

Again, same thing with the 112 and the larger jets.

I know that is very difficult to try to figure out by not riding the bike to see exactly what is happening under what conditions, and I'm trying to watch everything and remember what everything is doing.

Not sure what to do from here. I'm basically 100% confident that there is not any air leaks after all of the testing I've done. I don't know if my scooter is just cursed, or what exactly could be happening.

Have you tried to raise the needle clip and use the larger jets to tune it? Maybe you have the wrong taper/diameter needle. Those have reference numbers/letters on them and you could also look up the profiles.
This is just me, but it sounds like the main jet isn't opening enough or it's not large enough.
Needle jet......just try it and see. Hope you find the solution soon.......

My last thought was carb related. Take Brandon up on the offer of trying out a different carb. Or check what bones recommended and also look at the emulsification tube and see if some thing is clogged which I doubt. Sometimes even polini can make a mistake. I'm rich on my zx50 with ported fabrizi and fabrizi pipe on a 26mm with a 120 jet. It's crazy because I'm at a 130 and 26mm on the non ported one with a scorp. I'm running stock polini needles for now just to compare.

bonesv wrote:Have you tried to raise the needle clip and use the larger jets to tune it? Maybe you have the wrong taper/diameter needle. Those have reference numbers/letters on them and you could also look up the profiles.
This is just me, but it sounds like the main jet isn't opening enough or it's not large enough.
Needle jet......just try it and see. Hope you find the solution soon.......

Do you mean lower the clip to raise the needle?

The code on this particular needle is too d*** small to read, but I can see the last letter is an E. According to the chart with the carb, it list Rich to Lean as B,C,D,E,F,G,A,H,I,J. I had the clip at #4, and just moved it down to #5, which is the richest setting. I can take it out tomorrow to see what happens like that.

It was getting dark out and I did not get a chance to check the plug with that 112 in it. I will do that tomorrow also.

No. Lower the needle and up the jet size. You are at next to the highest setting on the "raising" the needle. Try lowering it and use a much larger main jet. What have you got to lose? Maybe we will see if there is something "off" with this carburetor.........

bonesv wrote:No. Lower the needle and up the jet size. You are at next to the highest setting on the "raising" the needle. Try lowering it and use a much larger main jet. What have you got to lose? Maybe we will see if there is something "off" with this carburetor.........

Gotcha. I'll try anything at this point.

hi G. a loaner? what size? I was thinking of looking for a 26mm or 28mm oko. my 24mm oko may be too small for the 50x50 motor?

hope it's ok to post on your thread johnny?

graphite9 wrote:I think its a 26 or 28, I forget. Ped if you get a new carb do yourself a favor and get a polini. You will have zero regrets.

Mr G I wish I could afford it at the moment. plus I have the jets for the oko.
If you have a used 28mm oko or 26, I can try see if it will work for me? I'm looking to spend about 50 for a goood used one if possible?
At the moment I'm looking for a rental see if it will work on my motor Thanks G.

Sorry Johnny for taking up your thread space. pm Sent to you Mr G.

Greetings:

Polini carbs use the PWK-OKO style jets. The quality is much better, and some Mysterious Italian Voodoo makes them seem to use less fuel, or at least smaller jets. I ran a series of OKO clones in various sizes from 24 to 30 over the years, but none of them worked as well as the Polini.

I'm pretty sure johnny248 has a stage 6 24mm also. He's swapped carbs and the same result. Leak down test has passed. Compression safe at 145. Swapped cdis, fw, and coil. Runs good just over heats. This engine is cursed. It'll get sorted out eventually if I was to bet, he's very determined. With the jetting he's using he could power a 26mm carb for sure. It's just not possible, yet it is..
I forget if he swapped pipes also.

Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:

Polini carbs use the PWK-OKO style jets. The quality is much better, and some Mysterious Italian Voodoo makes them seem to use less fuel, or at least smaller jets. I ran a series of OKO clones in various sizes from 24 to 30 over the years, but none of them worked as well as the Polini.

Thank you wheelman. I didn't know the jets are the same on the Polini Carb

1man8scoots wrote:I'm pretty sure johnny248 has a stage 6 24mm also. He's swapped canot and the same result. Leak down test has passed. Compression safe at 145. Swapped cdis, fw, and coil. Runs good just over heats. This engine is cursed. It'll get sorted out eventually if I was to bet, he's very determined. With the jetting he's using he could power a 26mm carb for sure. It's just not possible, yet it is..
I forget if he swapped pipes also.

He may have a defective pipe too much back pressure causing the cylinder to heat up?
Also I read somewhere if your squish band gap is too wide it can trap burnt gases and overheat?
Just a couple things to check.