Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

Might help that I don't have a baseline to go off, first scooter I ever touched and it was non running when I got it.

Yes, please report back, and post a picture of the spark plug after running it like that for about half a tank or so. Should see a nice brown color which will tell you that you're getting a proper burn.

Last 2 times I pulled the plug after running it was a perfect brown (perfect as to the opinions I've read here) just a little extra unburied oil in the jug and case, I don't think it's been enough to cause a real difference yet. I'll pull it and snap a pic this evening after my daily break in 3 mile trip.

I wont say "I told you so" later....but I'll be thinking it. Good luck to you.

Why wouldn't you say "told you so", I would and would expect it back!! I'm the new guy here and am in no way distrusting your expieriance and know how! Was only saying I Havnt had any issues yet that I couldn't work out! I really did jump the gun with all the parts ordering without consulting you guys here first. Just got a little exited with the dirty bird!

As for reporting back on tonight, made no changes to anything as I was pretty busy around the house prepping for my little guys birthday party this weekend, snapped a pic of the air box lid, and did a quick 3 mile cruise but had no chance to pull the plug. Ran great until I got down to the red on the gas gauge and started to feel like I lost some pep? No, I didn't run out of gas! But is that normal to lose a little pep with lack of pressure in the tank maybe? Or was I just imagining things because I was ready to go home a drink a beer, or 10.
So air box lid below, I tried to disperse the air flow by putting one one the side of the stock inlet and two opposite spaced as evenly as I could.

I think the reason meatball would tell you that, is because in order to properly do a BBK on an AF05 Spree engine, takes ALOT of resources and several rare parts. It CAN be done with what is available to you, but the Spree is very picky because of that intake. As I outlined a couple pages ago, a person needs to put the focus on the intake/reed system, not the carb or air. This is where you will run into issues if not addressed. This is the part that will jack up the cost if not planned well.

I can say this definitively because I spent the entire summer examining the AF05 engine with a BBK on the dyno with my buddies (professional mechanics), and consulted several of the engineers at Polaris where I work.

My solution, of running 96:1 in the tank, retaining the pump and retaining the air box, WILL make it run within a decent range on your stoich air/fuel, which is what you want, but does NOT maximize the potential for the BBK.

If you do wanna push it further like I have accomplished (52mph wide open throttle till it runs out of gas), then better give the wife some divorce papers, because she's gonna really cuss when she sees what that will cost.

It's too bad the Kitaco intake has been discontinued. I e-mailed Kitaco last week about this, and what they had told me, was in order to produce the 410-1028000 intake, they needed a minimum order of 300 units.

I also contacted japan.webike and just received a response from them on it which said:
So anyway, that leaves the problem of using a better intake then stock on a Spree for the BBK. Only option available now, is the SB50 intake and reeds. Or... port the Spree intake.

It's an awful lot of money and an awful lot of trouble to go through just to hit 40mph. Would be nice if someone just made a simple CNC adapter for the intake to put a Dio carb/reeds on it or something.

The BBK itself is awesome, a Polini carb is pretty bad to the bone, but having both won't help the intake problem.

Or, to explain it in "STONER" terms. Imagine the BBK/Cylinder are your lungs, imagine the carb is a big huge bowl packed with weed... biggest bowl you can find.. now imagine the intake on the Spree, is your screen... the problem is... your screen is too clogged, so it doesn't matter hard hard you suck with the lungs, or how huge that bowl is, ain't only a little bit is getting through, and guess what... now you're gonna cough.

Hopefully that analogy explains it, and also explains a bit why I will tell you that the 3 holes you drilled in your airbox, is too much air. You want that back pressure from the air box. Cover up those 2 holes that are right beside each other, and only use the one closest to the normal inlet. If that makes it dog a bit, then uncover 1 more. 3-1" holes, is way too much air.

eclark5483 wrote: Would be nice if someone just made a simple CNC adapter for the intake to put a Dio carb/reeds on it or something.

to explain it in "STONER" terms. Imagine the BBK/Cylinder are your lungs, imagine the carb is a big huge bowl packed with weed... biggest bowl you can find.. now imagine the intake on the Spree, is your screen... the problem is... your screen is too clogged, so it doesn't matter hard hard you suck with the lungs, or how huge that bowl is, ain't only a little bit is getting through, and guess what... now you're gonna cough.

I actually have a sb50-to-dio intake adapter. Looks like its cast not cnc tho. I bought it off motormike. If somebody knows how to make one, I'll let em borrow it for measurements. But I need it back, I'm building an '85 aero motor and it has that cursed 2 bolt intake.

I use a glass bowl piece in my water pipe (bong); works like a bellmouth, no metal screens needed haha. And, ya gotta cough to get off, right?!?

And I'd post a pic if photo bucket worked...

Here it is. On the lower right in pic.

And here's my personal intake manifold...

It's legal here!
It's actually interesting you bring up the "bong vs. Air/fuel mix" anaolgy. In my (and most others) bong is a "carburetor"- the bowl piece is removable, allowing the "user"(heh) to modulate the amount of pure smoke inhaled, mixing it with fresh,cool atmospheric air. It then runs the mixture through a water reservoir to cool the charge air and filter out any particulates.

And now you know why most of my posts are edited a couple of times haha. Short term memory loss is * on editing.

I say hold onto it benji, until someone who CAN reproduce it for you (and everybody else) comes along. That adapter, as well as the Kitaco 410-1028000 intake, are really the key parts needed to unlock the power of a 48mm BBK. Your adapter, would be better then the Kitaco as it allows a completely different reed system to be utilized. You are still limited to a 17.5mm carb as the largest carb, and an FYI for people so they know WHY.. It's because of the Spree's engine BLOCK. If the block was ported, you could probably go with a 19mm carb, but since it is so limited and small, the 17.5mm max gives you the best suction. You'll lose this suction (causes lean condition) when you try upsizing that carb to something bigger. Something you really don't wanna do when trying to squeeze what you can out of an AF05 engine.

There's an old school Boeing machine shop down the road from my house. I may try to see if they will copy it for less than a million dollars. If I can get em made for fairly cheap, I may produce a run of em for the true spree guys on here who need this adapter. This is literally the first and last I've seen of these.

Use it with this polini adapter and a polini carb, you almost got a spree version of a polini evo!
http://m.adrenalin-pedstop.co.uk/polini ... 5324).aspx

If you aint chokin' you aint smokin'! lolol....I didnt mean to come off as arrogant. My comments stem from my personal experience with the bore as well as the numerous others that had the same issue. During my saga, I was even lucky enough to have mousewheels come to my house and spend a better part of the day trying to remedy the issues. He certainly knows his way around a 2-stroke but after many hours of frustration, it still wouldnt do anything but soft seize at full throttle. Of course, I didnt have an aftermarket carb, intake, MLM exhaust, etc...and I wasnt about to sell a kidney to make it happen.

eclark has had great success with this bore and has proven it will work with a lengthy combination of parts. This is the only set-up that Ive ever heard about that hasnt constantly seized. If you want it to run longer than 10 seconds at WOT, copy his combo to the T!

To summarize it all, and to bring this topic to a close, I submit to you:

THIS WILL COST YOU A SMALL FORTUNE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1MUmUUJbbs

Do yourself a favor, and research an engine swap. My perfection, is if anything... LUCK.

That's why this little Spree of my son's will never be abused and is a show bike. What I did CAN be done, it's just that doing it is gonna be a HUGE hunt to undertake.

We got that ole Colorado pot head 1man8scoots on board, hit him up for professional porting work on intakes and BBK's, engines, reeds, etc... make the man rich, he is a GODSEND to the SERIOUS Spree BBK enthusiast.

Try your own hand at porting, if you dare... buy a junk intake cheap.. practice on it, get some old reeds... practice on them. Get one right? Swap it so you still have an original. Noiseguy is your gasket hookup.

It REALLY, REALLY is hard work, if you are serious about the BBK, take the path that preserves the Spree the most, and you will get the BEST results, in addition, you will help contribute to keeping these sweet little bike's alive. An engine swap should be the ONLY method of going faster on the Spree, BBK's should be for the serious builders and collectors. If you have one now, please follow what I have outlined, I wanna see your BBK last a long time, not get pushed more then you think it is capable of. It's only a transition from 49cc, to 68cc. You REALLY, REALLY don't need to go all wild with how you treat that. It's not as powerful as one thinks, but is a noticeable improvement.