Spree Performance baselines and troubleshooting

[JohnRobHolmes]

I snagged an 85 spree from a yard sale a few weeks back. It start up like a champ and gets to about 22 to 25mph on the flats. It is not from Iowa. I weigh 150lbs and was wondering if this is anemic performance for these little guys? On steep hills it will pull down to about 10mph, and it takes a bit of a push to get it going from a dead stop. Just wanted to make sure this was considered bad performance before I tear into the carb, I have a bad history of making things worse.


Also, the links provided for tech docs and service manual do not work for me http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewto ... ?f=3&t=220 It says page does not exist when I click the links.

[wiguy05]

With a properly running Spree you should see around 30mph. This is what I would do, in this order:

1. Do a compression check, note PSI reading and report back.
2. Thoroughly clean the carburetor (info found on this site) and reinstall.
3. Drain gas tank fully, replace with new gas.
4. Replace spark plug.

[JohnRobHolmes]

Will do, thanks. It has 1200 miles on it, so it may just be carbon build up or junk in the carb from being old. I figured it was a bit slow.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

NB: I've never owned one. Never even ridden one...

SHOPPING LIST:

> Honda-san's:

NGK BPR6 HSA Spark Plug
Spree Air Filter Element
Quart of GN-2 2-Stroke Oil

> Maybe Later:

Carb Rebuild Kit
Piston Rings (see below)

> Harbor Freight:

Compression gauge (= $9.)
Holder Tool (= $12)
Set of 1/4" Drive Metric Sockets ($?)
Set of Metric Box/Open Wrenches "
Tire Pressure Gauge

Everything I've read suggests a stock Spree should be good for 30 MPH

I'm going to recommend the easy path - least amount of work first.

If the tank's nearly empty, just refill with fresh. Debates regarding regular/premium won't help here. The suggestion to drain a full tank first is a good one. Put the old gas in your car. It'll never know the difference.

Did you check the tire pressure? Soft tires are slow.

Check the air filter. I mean the sponge element inside. If it's lying at the bottom in a pool of its own hydrocarbon remains, install the new one, lightly oiled with GN-2. Check for wildlife while you're in there. Sometimes you have to destroy entire ecosystems, so do it at night and don't tell the EPA. Wasps' nests and Spreeders and Mice, Oh My!

Unscrew the spark plug. Screw in the Compression gauge, open the throttle all the way and crank. Readings north of 90? Put in the new plug and leave engine exploration for another day. Under 90? Add a teaspoon of that GN-2 and retest. If it goes up to 120, add piston rings to the Honda-san list for later.

Worn belts can degrade performance too. a few 8mm bolts and a pop or two with a rubber mallet and the case cover comes off. Try to conserve the fiber gasket. It's needed for the starter to work correctly. If the belt's 14.5mm wide or better (Same for Sprees as for AF16s, Forum?) leave it alone. Clean any grease you find off the pulleys. Mop up and reinstall cover, firm handshake torque.

Save the carb cleaning for last. It's a lot of work, and I don't believe it's your problem if it "start up like a champ and gets to about 22 to 25mph on the flats". Bad carb gunk kills the transition from idle to on-throttle. It wouldn't hurt, unless you make an assembly error. Plus reinstalling old o-rings sometimes results in a leak.

HTH. Post your findings so that others may learn.

[JohnRobHolmes]

Got new plugs on order, got an airfilter installed, and will be checking compression tomorrow when the plugs come in. I already have a bottle of the 2 stroke injection oil ready to go.

To do- drain oil and gas, replace.
Check compression and replace plug
maybe clean out muffler. Lots of oil on the tip.


I did find that it lost power when the air filter box was slighly cracked open. Running too lean from just a small air leak.

[Lunytune]

My wife's scoot is an Elite E, same NQ50 powerplant. Yes, you should expect 30mph on flat straightaway. I don't have any experience with belts, but tend to agree with Wheelman on that.

I'm watching this thread close as I have one I suspect has worn belt. I need to learn how to diagnose belt problems.

[wiguy05]

Got new plugs on order, got an airfilter installed, and will be checking compression tomorrow when the plugs come in. I already have a bottle of the 2 stroke injection oil ready to go.

To do- drain oil and gas, replace.
Check compression and replace plug
maybe clean out muffler. Lots of oil on the tip.


I did find that it lost power when the air filter box was slighly cracked open. Running too lean from just a small air leak.

Just be sure to properly bleed the oil pump feed line and also the oiler line to the carb. Sounds like an excellent start to diagnose the problem.

[JohnRobHolmes]

First check- compression is right at 90psi cold and dry. Should be a bit better when hot and wet


Old plug electrode looked decent but had carbon build up around the edges and the gap was less than .020". Got three new plugs and set em at 0.028. Next is to replace fluids and clean out the muffler. With all the carbon on the plug it may be a good idea to take off the head and clean the carb, but only if I don't see improvement from the initial maintenance.

[JohnRobHolmes]

Bad news. The oil was something horrible and green/black. I rode it about 20 miles on that sludge too


Drained it out, and will be cleaning more of the engine tomorrow. Shooting for an exhaust burn in the fire pit and carb clean. Need to grind off a bit of the stand too, it rubs my new tires.


Also took a peak at the belt. I could see some metal weave poking through the sides and there was a little pile of dust on everything. Number 1 on the shopping list.

[Lunytune]

Also took a peak at the belt. I could see some metal weave poking through the sides and there was a little pile of dust on everything.

You need to do all that other maintenance, but I think you've just found your problem.

[bradthreee]

When replacing the fluids dont forget to clean out the oil and fuel strainers.

With only 1200 miles you probably wont need to take that head off. Run some Seafoam a couple tankfuls and pretty sure it'll break down that carbon buildup.

Good work

[JohnRobHolmes]

Ran a large amount of seafoam through it today, no change. Put the muffler into a fire this evening until it was glowing red and not smoking anymore. Gonna knock out the soot and bolt it on tomorrow, fingers crossed!

[JohnRobHolmes]

Got a lot of carbon out today, but there is still a huge mass trapped between the baffles and outer wall. Any suggestions before I attempt open heart surgery with my grinder? I beat the * out of it with a rubber mallet for over an hour and couldn't get it broken up. Flushed it with water, and will put it into a fire and try the process once more before cutting. Maybe if I keep water in the muffler when it is in the fire, the boiling action will help break up the crap.

[Kenny_McCormic]

My wife's scoot is an Elite E, same NQ50 powerplant. Yes, you should expect 30mph on flat straightaway. I don't have any experience with belts, but tend to agree with Wheelman on that.

I'm watching this thread close as I have one I suspect has worn belt. I need to learn how to diagnose belt problems.

Not the same, although many parts will interchange. The 84 and 85 spree have slower motors(dished pistons, different cranks, different heads, smaller reeds, stuff like that) than the 86/87. 25-30 is reasonable for any spree IMO.

[Lunytune]

I'm watching this thread close as I have one I suspect has worn belt. I need to learn how to diagnose belt problems.

Not the same, although many parts will interchange. The 84 and 85 spree have slower motors(dished pistons, different cranks, different heads, smaller reeds, stuff like that) than the 86/87. 25-30 is reasonable for any spree IMO.

You miss the point. Although the NQ50 may have less power and straight drive, diagnosing belt problems don't change.