Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

So I never got the deal on the GY6, so I bought a Spree from my friend, and I feel I got screwed. It ran alright today but it was a MFer to start! Kick after kick, and my foot hurts! Not to mention you got to hit the throttle JUST right or it'll *try* and die.

I cleaned the carb, drilled two 5/8" or so holes at the back of the exaust, and when I got fed up I bought a new NGK plug.

Thus now it is even HARDER to start. Used to take 10-12 kicks, now I'm out of breath from kicking by the time it starts.

I played around with the carb during dissasembly and noticed it only had a 65 jet. I switched it to a 68. Didn't seem to help.

Tried reeds too since I had a good set on a spare junk motor, nothing. The reeds I took out don't look bad either.

My question is, is something maybe plugged up pretty good on this or what? It's my only set of wheels, and when I kick it over it's got a good amount of resistance. It's all I've got and I need it to run. I gave $225 for it, if I can't fix and have to buy parts I'll take a loss and get it out of my hair cheaper than that so I can put it toward something else.

FYI the carb is SQUEAKY clean, even the small passages. I shot carb cleaner thru the idle jet and watched it spray out in the carb throat.

I bought it with a bad gas tank valve (it would fill the block thru vacuum side overnight) and replaced it already, but it's still hard to start.

HELP!!

Greetings:

I feel your frustration. Sounds like you have at least decent compression. Main jet won't help, could hurt starting. Out the 65 back in.

Checklist suggestion:

Airbox.

Bystarter; remove and test for <10 Ohms and 5mm erection.

Check the bystarter "Mini-bowl" and its little brass insert too.

Fuel supply; tank contents, mesh screen, vacuum line. A granule of spooge quickly negates a good carb cleaning. Inline filters provide extra insurance.

Spark is probably ok, but check anyway.

Depending on mileage, check for muffler blockage.

Does it act the same when the motor is hot as it does when the motor is cold?

Back to basics: Three things required.
Compression
Ignition
Fuel

Compression: Even though it may kick hard, check it anyway. It might fool you, and difficult starting is an indicator of poor compression.
Ignition: A good hot blue spark, not a wimpy yellow
Fuel: IMO and for what it's worth, this where I suspect your problem is, assuming you have good compression and spark. Wheelman has given you a good check list. And double check that carb cleaning. Every passage must be clean and clear.

eliteguy50 wrote:Does it act the same when the motor is hot as it does when the motor is cold?

Sure does. I'll do some more digging on it today, and I'll even start me a nice bonfire and decarbonize and repaint the exhaust.

Wheelman, I will check that mini-bowl you speak of. I did forget that. But here's the thing, I tried to shoot a bit of carb cleaner in it to boost it, it made no difference, and if I use the electric start, it won't start but will try. After about 30 kicks I can finally get it going.

wikked_spree57 wrote: I cleaned the carb, drilled two 5/8" or so holes at the back of the exaust, and when I got fed up I bought a new NGK plug.

Why in the * would you drill holes in your exhaust before it even ran??? let alone even if it DID run?

I'm going to be as nice as possible but, the more posts of yours I read, the more I realize you are very mechanically challenged. While I applaud your resilliency and effort, I would highly suggest you stop wasting your money on "cheap, fixer upper" scoots and buy something ready to drive as-is.

then it is not the bystarter

Greetings:

Don't listen to Wiseguy, Wikked. His doctor says he gets too much caffeine. You'll get it going sure enough, and will be the wiser for it.

First try a dash of premix down the intake, if this doesn't get it going then I would be looking at the bottom end seals.

Wheelman-111 wrote:Don't listen to Wiseguy, Wikked. His doctor says he gets too much caffeine. You'll get it going sure enough, and will be the wiser for it.

I agree with Wiseguy that you may be mechanically challenged, but I join the doctor in encouraging you to keep at it, and yeah, wiseguy probably does drink too much caffeine.

In all that's been said, I still come back to compression. I've run without pipe, in fact, it fell off my SR50 on way back from Walmart few days ago, I've run without an airbox, still runs fine...

Ignition IMO is either go or no go, same with carb for the most part, but not always.

Not to mention you got to hit the throttle JUST right or it'll *try* and die.

Now that part does make me suspicious of carburetor, but you may have more than one problem.

Any time something takes as many times to start as you say, and finally starts, I say "uh-huh"... compression. Check that first just to rule it out and satisfy an old man's curiousity.

I wish you were close, I would come check it myself. I'm traveling 50 miles one way tomorrow to go help guys I've never met and I'm taking my compression gauge with me, just in case.

my vote goes to compression. i had an 86' spree w 12,212 miles and it ran similar. when i pulled the jug, i was astonished that it could run at all. deep scoring, but just enough compression to run. talk to marc. time for a big bore kit

in the mean time, careful not to screw the teeth up on the kicker. repeated violent kicks can wipe out the kickstart, no use in making things worse...

talk to marc

Good suggestion. I bought a kit for my NQ50 for under $100.

Wikked, sell that scoot to me for $100. I got a kit and will have it going in a day's time. I'm slow, gotta take 'puter breaks, and then scooter breaks.

One way to test if its compression - remove the plug and add about a teaspoon of 2-stroke oil (no more than that) and gently turn over the engine to distribute it. Replace the plug and try to start again. If it starts more easily, its likely compression (you'll get a burst of smoke).

Another thing to check. Make sure the carb bowl is not emptying from the drain. All that initial kicking could be just generating the vacuum required to re-fill the carb each time.

Make sure the bystarter is fitted properly. Should be tight and have the o-ring installed or it will leak air and mess up the fuel/air mixture.

Alright.

First things first. Wiguy05, I drilled the holes WHILE it was running. I was a bit annoyed of the lack of power these things have, and 20MPH wasn't enough speed. the holes got me 25MPH. Good enough for now.

The oil thing - before I tried that this afternoon, I checked the new plug I put in last night. After about 2-3 minutes of cranking with the electric start, I'm getting this sticky black goo on the plug. I cleaned the plug, put it back in, cranked a few seconds more, and after a bit of *i think i can i think i can* it was covered again. I've determined there's nothing wrong with the oil pump, at least visually. Nothing appeared to be leaking when I removed it. So I sprayed a bunch of carb cleaner down the cylinder, cranked it with no plug, blew out all that nasty squeege in there, and tried again. This time (now, I know this is a no-no on two strokes so reminding me isn't necessary) I used a shot of sarting fluid down the carburetor. Trying to fire it was better - it cranked up and sounded like it was almost going to start, then went back to slow cranking like someone cut off the ignition. Pulled the plug, squeege again. Did my cleanout method again, and this time I put a spoonful of GN2 down the cylinder. Made no difference.

And guys- I'm mechanically inclined PLENTY to work on these things. I just have this little thing called Bi-Polar, and some of the dumbest things can really get me * off. I get frustrated too easily. Ready to run bikes are out of my price range for the most part.

Now I'm starting to think this is compression. I don't have a tester, but I might rent one just to see for myself. I had a Spree last year that had real similar behaviour, the one Carp bought. I put new rings in and it ran like a champ, if that's all this needs, I don't think I'll need a big bore kit. Sure it would be alot of fun, but I don't want to sink a whole lot into this thing if you catch my drift. If I do any type of modification, I'll put the Elite 150 motor I have on it and build motor mounts for it. Now that would be nuts!

Lunytune - If you'd like to send $200 plus shipping she's all yours. LOL. I'm undecided what to do with it at the moment. I have a gy coming to look Saturday for $225, if he passes on it, I'll modify it for the 150 motor. No big deal.

Remember, I have full access to a machine shop and have very mild machine skills. If I needed help in that area, I'm sure scooterwerx would lend some advice... lol.