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Another 84 Spree that won't start

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:31 pm
by back2basics
Just rebuilt the top end on this and it fired up and ran pretty good. I don't know if it was a mistake or not yet, but I put in a several capfuls of oil in the gas tank to aid in lubrication on this fresh engine. Then I read that wasn't a good idea so I put some seafoam in there (don't ask why, I'm not sure what I was thinking while adding all this crap to the gas tank). So then I drained all that gas and put nice, clean, fresh gas in the tank without any additives. I fired it up and it wouldn't go anywhere, it would stutter all the way up to a whole 5 mph and if I kept on the gas it would die. It was a really * stuttering that shook the scooter. After this I was able to get it to start and idle just fine, but now I can't even get it to start unless I spray some carb cleaner in the intake.

I've broken down the carb several times and soaked the parts, but its still doing this. Any ideas. If you need more info let me know.

Re: Another 84 Spree that won't start

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:06 pm
by Lunytune
Sounds like carb. There are several ports in the carb and they MUST be clean. Can you blow carb cleaner through every passage way and see where it goes? By every, I mean every. There are a couple of small ones that are so small they need a #13 guitar string to probe and clean.

Re: Another 84 Spree that won't start

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:45 pm
by bradthreee
Should have left all that stuff in the tank. Seafoam has done nothing but help my Spree run right!

Re: Another 84 Spree that won't start

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:43 am
by Lunytune
back2basics wrote:I don't know if it was a mistake or not yet, but I put in a several capfuls of oil in the gas tank to aid in lubrication on this fresh engine. Then I read that wasn't a good idea so I put some seafoam in there.
So then I drained all that gas and put nice, clean, fresh gas in the tank without any additives. I fired it up and it wouldn't go anywhere...
Let's correct some wrong thinking. "Then I read". Lots of things are written, but you need to validate the statement.

For every person who says it's not good to add oil during breakin, another will say it is. There is nothing wrong with ensuring your new engine is lubricated during break-in. When 1/50 oil first came out, many of us refused to accept it and still mixed 1/20 (pre-mix days). So it's okay unless you got it too rich, but I doubt it.

SEAFOAM: Let me reinforce what Brad said, "Seafoam has done nothing but help my Spree run right!" It is nothing more than a hydrocarbon designed to dissolve paraffin and varnish. Probably has toluene in it. I used toluene years ago in the oilfield to dissolve pariffin in the bottom of oil tanks. It is flammable, burnable and combustible, so it will blend with gas and burn in the chamber. In the meantime it will keep the carburetor clean. It won't dissolve rust, but it does a great job on varnish. I run it in all my small engines, and my cars occasionally, as fuel injection systems hate varnish.

Now back2basics, as that is your moniker, let's do that. Three basics we need to get back to with any engine:

Compression: Should have 100 psi minimum. You dealt with that in the rebuild. I doubt you broke it this quick.

Ignition: It wouldn't run at all if you had ignition problems. Unlike a car which has many wires, these motors only have one, so it's go or not go. I don't think that's your problem, but double check it.

Fuel: Now we're down to where the problem probably is. Make sure you are getting ample fuel to the carb. Pull the fuel line, and while sucking on the vacuum line going to the petcock, you should get a steady flow of gas. If so, put it back together and pull the carb.
Wait, one more thing. I've discovered that some scoots don't run well with the airbox off. It doesn't matter if the filter is in, just need the airbox. I've got a couple which run like a banshee without the airbox, but I've also had a couple that bogged on throttle.
Back to the carb. Write it in stone, it's not enough to give the carb a bath. You must insure that every passage is clear by shooting Carb Cleaner through it. The one that gives the most problem resulting in the "bogging on throttle", is a tiny hole in side a barrel which runs parallel with the main jet, visible from the bowl side as a barrel. Now look down the throttle valve cavity. You see the main jet in the middle. On the parameter is a tiny hole which requires that guitar string. It connects with the barrel on the other side, but you can't see daylight through it as it is dogleg. You have to work at it, as that varnish is stubborn. Probe, probe, squirt some carb cleaner and probe some more, until you can get carb cleaner to come out the other side.

So pull the carb, get every passage clean and then get back to us.
And put the Seafoam back in the tank.

Re: Another 84 Spree that won't start

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:25 pm
by back2basics
Alright, I'll give the carb a real good cleaning tomorrow and let you know how it goes. I'll also put some seafoam back in there.