Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

Now I know Im a traitor for buying a 81 Express, but it was a good deal.
My question is as follows.
With my Spree, it will start without a battery, but the lights ofcourse barely work.
So on the Express, (kick start only and 6V system) is a battery needed to start it?
It started on first kick with using a 6V trickle charger hooked up, but would not start for anything without it hooked up.
I do not have a battery for it yet, and am trying to see if Im crazy or you have to have 6V on it in order for the coil or CDI to fire properly in order to start. Yes there is spark when there is no 6V. Thanks for your thoughts and knowledge.

You are not a traitor, you stuck with Honda!

As for your issue I have no express knowledge, but your questions will be watched as I have a 77 that I've been itching to rebuild.

Good luck and just buy the battery

Some bikes(and almost all cars and computer controlled bikes) need the battery to run the ignition system, the express might be one of them.

Hey, the Express is a points ignition model! I didn't look long enough to trace the electical, but there is a manual at:
http://www.mopedriders.org/html/manuals ... resssm.htm

Page shown is the wiring diagram, but it looks that all pages are there. Should take care of your question and more...

Doesn't matter, I believe honda made some 70cc bike back in the 70s that needed a battery to run.

It it has a points ignition, it has to have a battery to start.

It it has a points ignition, it has to have a battery to start.

Well, Points alone do not force a battery ignition system. However, it does match the original poster's observation & worth checking into the Express diagram. Which is why I noted "It's a point's ignition!"

Points were used with magneto ignitions before CDI's were around. Common examples of points/magneto were lawnmower engines, piston aircraft etc.. Things that had to be able to run w/o a battery

A lot of point bikes dont, some points cars dont, I know from experience you can push start a VW beetle with a 100% dead,will not take any charge, sitting 10 years battery. My 72 Kawasaki F-11 ran fine without a battery, most points sleds ran fine without a battery. It usually comes down to whether or not there is a separate ignition system dedicated coil on the generator/alternator.

Kenny_McCormic wrote:A lot of point bikes dont, some points cars dont, I know from experience you can push start a VW beetle with a 100% dead,will not take any charge, sitting 10 years battery. My 72 Kawasaki F-11 ran fine without a battery, most points sleds ran fine without a battery. It usually comes down to whether or not there is a separate ignition system dedicated coil on the generator/alternator.

You can push start most if not all battery points system if the charging sysytem is working because you turn the motor over a lot faster than even an electric starter will. The generator/alternator makes power when the engine is turned over and will run the ignition. But cranking one with a kick starter in most cases not work. The magneto and CDI system only require enough rpm to charge the system and a magneto is better about it than a CDI.

I would suspect that your Kawa was an electronic magneto or if you prefer a electronic ignition or a CDI. The rice burners were the first to really embrace the electronic ignition systems.

Nope, I have pulled the flywheel cover and looked in there, its got points ignition. 6 volt system, external coil under the gastank. With a good plug I can get it running in 1-2 kicks. I believe the Japenese bikes started to get CDI ignition sometime in the late 70s.

Thanks for all the replies. I just bought a little 6V 4 amp battery at Napa and Ill let you know what happens.
A word of caution regarding using Brakleen for getting these things running: I had a small fire the other day after I sprayed some in the carb and on the plug and in the cylinder. Neighbor had to use his beer to put it out and stamping on it.
The excess Brakleen shot out of the cylinder head and we had the plug out and turned out to be touching metal causing a spark which ignited a small bonfire under the Express, which was near a 600 gallon propane tank and a gallon jug of gas. HAHA close call, so be careful, even when working with a small engine.
Thanks

gspreesea wrote:Thanks for all the replies. I just bought a little 6V 4 amp battery at Napa and Ill let you know what happens.
A word of caution regarding using Brakleen for getting these things running: I had a small fire the other day after I sprayed some in the carb and on the plug and in the cylinder. Neighbor had to use his beer to put it out and stamping on it.
The excess Brakleen shot out of the cylinder head and we had the plug out and turned out to be touching metal causing a spark which ignited a small bonfire under the Express, which was near a 600 gallon propane tank and a gallon jug of gas. HAHA close call, so be careful, even when working with a small engine.
Thanks

Using Brakleen or starting fluid or whatever with 2 strokes is asking to blow the reeds, which is why it is a poor idea. For 2 strokes, I always had a oil squirt can with gas/oil mix in it. You won't blow your reeds using gas. This learned from 25 years as a profession 2 stroke mechanic.

Most Express' can be started without a battery. The Ignition gets its current from the alternator coils.

Thank you my friends and wise men
I figured out; yes, it does start without a battery. 1981 NC50 starts without 6 volts hooked up for sure. However, as you probably already know its not recommended because it will pop the bulb on the headlight. Easy fix though which can be googled. Mine was already blown so Im in the process of rigging it up. They say you can use a 12 volt 20 watt bulb as well.
I have another question though I will post in a few minutes. Thanks so much for your help.