Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

So I was putting my piston clip on, I had a towel around all the openings to try and stop this from happening but in my fumbling I dropped the clip into the crankcase. Am I going to have to disassemble the crankcase to get the clip out or is there a different way to get it out? Also if I have to disassemble it what would be the best approach with the fact I have no specialty tools.

Greetings:

A magnet tied to a string or a proper mechanic's retriever tool (available cheaply at Harbor Freight) will often do the trick. There's room between the flywheels.

I have yet to try to do a bore kit without removing the engine to my WorkMate in the comfort of my boudoir.

It takes little time to drop the engine and this allows you to invert the block and shake the thing out.

You are awesome Wheelman . I am so glad I am not going to have to mess with the crankcase .

Greetings:

No worries, mate. Pass it along. One thing that helped me stop dropping stuff is I added a nice new pair of long-nose pliers not from China to the Rock-and Stick Toolkit. If you plan on doing this stuff ever again, relegate the old ones to general use but save an unworn pair for this critical work.

pull the engine fill the case with gas, shake & dump, with wrist pins you need to count them.

Ok so I did what was suggested, but no clip has come out of the case. To begin with I wasn't 100% sure it fell into the crankcase or on the side. Since I couldn't find it anywhere in my immediate work area I assumed it to be in the crank case. So I shook, it turned it upside down shook it, repeated that a couple of times and the filling with gas technique.

I don't hear anything rattling on the inside however I do hear a scraping when I turn the crankshaft ( Sounds kind of like brakes on very lightly). Sorry for not knowing what it is called but it seems to be coming from the wheel on the right side of the crankcase underneath the white fan piece. This scraping only happens on about half of the turn with brakes in it. Meaning if I turn it one full rotation it will make a sound and stop approximately 4 times. I have investigated all I can with lights and mirrors and can't seem to find the elusive piston clip.

So I was wondering if after doing all of this if that means indeed the piston clip is not in the crankcase and whether or not that scraping is something that I should worry about.

Greetings:

Quoth GoodDerf:

Sorry for not knowing what it is called but it seems to be coming from the wheel on the right side of the crankcase underneath the white fan piece. This scraping only happens on about half of the turn with brakes in it.

No need to apologize. That rusty-brown round thing to which the white fan is screwed is the alternator flywheel. Well, that's what I call it anyway. It's heavy, cast-iron and festooned with the strongest magnets you've ever seen. If that clip bounced anywhere near that area, you've found both the cause of your noise and the clip, which is probably rubbing between the flywheel and the crankcase.

Getting it out of there is another minor headache. You've already removed the cooling shroud. Now unbolt the white fan and see the nut holding the flywheel down. The proper way to remove it is outlined in the Service Manual. You can use an impact wrench on this side - but only to loosen and remove that nut. I make an exception to my "no impact tool rule" on the right side because the flywheel's mass prevents the crankshaft from being subjected to the shearing forces. If you have a solid BOX-END wrench - a 14mm(?) you can also tap-tap-tap it loose.

The real tricky part is pulling the flywheel without buggering up your alternator's delicate coils of fine copper wire resting mere millimeters below the iron dome. The correct way is with the special flywheel puller tool as shown in said Manual. However I've done it by threading the nut back onto the crank end most of the way, holding the flywheel (but dangling the rest of the block over my workbench) and giving the nut a couple of very sharp whacks. The tapered crank end should drop off the mating taper at the flywheel's hub.

Don't be surprised when you remove the nut and find the flywheel is still mighty reluctant to leave the block. It's those magnets; they're really strong. Wiggle and pull, wiggle and pull. Be patient and don't mess up the alternator armature or I'll have to sell you a new one. Once off, you should find your clip magnet-stuck somewhere on the iron flywheel.

Be careful reassembling, too. There's a half-moon sliver of steel called the Woodruff Key that fits very tightly into a slot on the crankshaft. It has to be there and in good position to press the flywheel back on for correct ignition timing. The flywheel has to be firmly seated on the crank, and the nut alone doesn't provide enough driving force. Again, Honda's special tool is the right way to reinstall, but you can tap-tap-tap it back into position. Listen for the change in tone as you tap to be sure it's sitting all the way down on the crankshaft's "ledge". Then torque that nut back on with 30 ft-lbs, immobilizing the flywheel with a bar of steel stock bolted to the flywheel. (Don't screw those bolts in too far - see above.)

Then go buy some good longnose pliers.

So I have the nut off now, but like you said the flywheel is being a bugger. I can't get the thing to wiggle a bit, any ideas as how I can get it off. Unfortunately I called all the shops around here and they all went 'whats a flywheel puller?' , so I can't find one of those very easily.

Greetings:

Sorry if the message was lost in my lengthy post:

However I've done it by threading the nut back onto the crank end most of the way. This is to protect the crank threads. Holding the assembly by the flywheel (but dangling the rest of the block over my workbench) and giving the nut a couple of very sharp whacks. You need a fair-sized hammer and don't miss your target. The tapered crank end should drop off the mating taper at the flywheel's hub.

Don't be surprised when you remove the nut, AND BREAK THE PRESS-FITTED TAPER with the hammer, and find the flywheel is still mighty reluctant to leave the block.

You've got to pop the taper out first. The safe way is to use the puller, but this works without too much damage risk. It's also way faster. Any autoparts shop clerk that doesn't know what a flywheel puller is obviously needs a new calling. Here's one:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=37824

Always use the Harbor freight style of puller that wheelman has shown. The kind with the jaws that reach around the outside of the flywheel can warp the flywheel and/or pop the magnets loose. Also the woodruff key and the nut do not hold the flywheel on. The compression of the tapers together do and that's why you usually have to smack the center bolt of the puller with a hammer to pop the flywheel loose. With a small engines wheelman's nut and hammer while pulling on the flywheel while you smack the nut works, but be careful that you don't peen the nut over and ruin it.

Thanks guys, I have a harbor freight tool maybe 20 minutes away so I am going to go get that. I called honda-san up thinking heh maybe i can convince the service guy to take the flywheel off for me for few dollars seeing as I have everything off, and all he needs to do is grab the flywheel puller. d*** service guy wanted 45.50 to pull my flywheel off even at that stage .

maddog wrote:pull the engine fill the case with gas, shake & dump, with wrist pins you need to count them.

do you know what a wrist pin is??
yeah, because if your scoot has more than one wrist pin, you've got a problem

do you read before you post, or just make things up??