Newb with a few questions

othius · Post by **othius** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:00 pm

Hey folks, I'm new here. I've read a bunch of posts... haven't slept much now that I've got a new toy!

Ok, yesterday picked up an 85 Spree. The guy said it ran fine for years but last year got sluggish and had the carb reworked at a shop. It's been sitting for a few months and now won't start without starting fluid. He suggests getting the carb reworked again. If that's necessary I'll definately do it myself with all the help on this site. (thanks)

Ok a few questions:

1. Only starting with fluid if left to sit for a few hours. If it's run a bit and then sits for 10-20, it'll start up again without fluid. Is this a problem with sitting for a while? Should I just use starting fluid for a bit and hope it goes away? (I feel like someone wrote something about that after sitting for a few months.)

2. It's pretty sluggish. I've got to nurse the accelerator and even then it's pretty sluggish. The fastest I've been able to get it is 22 mph. When I'm going at "top" speed I still can't open the throttle wide, it starts to sputter a bit. Could this just be gas?

3. They said the fastest they ever really got it was up to 27 mph, I feel like I should get more than that out of it though. Any thoughts?

Thanks. Sorry if some of this is redundant to other posts, I've read a lot and not found the questions worded the same way.

Cheers-

othius

Post by **noiseguy** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:32 am

Carb sounds gunked up. Plan on cleaning it yourself, it will plug up again anyway. Check the fuel tank for rust/crud and think about running an inline filter. When did you change the plug last, and are you running injector oil, or crummy premix "marine" oil? Oil should be red, not blue.

You did not say if you have an "Iowa" or standard Spree (see tech docs on how to check this.) 27 MPH is on the low end, but believable. Most properly running Spree do 30 +/- 3 MPH tops.

othius · Post by **othius** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:49 am

Noiseguy-

Thanks. It's not an Iowa model. I haven't changed the plug and not sure of the oil... will get to that in a few minutes to see.

I've done a lot of work on cars but never messed with a 2 stroke. Is the carb work realtively easy? I plan to pull it off today and clean it out.

And the inline filter, sorry for the dumb question but you mean filtering the gas/cleaning the tank?

cheers-

scootngo · Post by **scootngo** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:41 pm

How many miles on it?

With what you have said, and was described by the previous owner, I'd check the compression. If low compression, that may be the power loss.

The carb, yes, clean it yourself. It has several very tiny passages that are easily clogged with the tiniest piece of rust. Don't forget, remove the main jet (inside bottom of large brass tube), and remove the inner jet tube-there are like 8 tiny crossholes inside there! And theres a tiny feed hole on the bystarter/choke circuit bowl(separate tube inside main bowl).

Finally, the throttle slide on top goes in in one way, don't force it.

Put a inline fuel filter between the petcock and the carb to catch particles.

othius · Post by **othius** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:56 pm

ok, cleaning the carb out.

If I have low compression (will check tomorrow if I can get the tool) what's the deal with that? Is that a carb or a head thing?

Sorry, not so sure about this, just getting used to working on this little guy.

thanks!

deathwish · Post by **deathwish** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:10 pm

if you have low compression then u r going to have t replace the piston rings and gaskets and that should solve ur problem...

othius · Post by **othius** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:31 am

Cleaned the carb out, drained the gas, replaced the oil, though I couldn't find injector oil bought 2 stroke motorcycle oil... it's blue. Is this a problem?
Ok, so now it runs a bit better. Can't get it over 20-21 mph and have to nurse it to get there. too much throttle and it starts to sputter.

I took out the spark plug and turned it over with my finger over the hole. I'm not sure how much it should "blow" my finger. It kind of blows it off then sucks it back.

Also... when screwing the carb back into the air intake one of the screws began to strip. It still holds but I can't crank it too tight, it's just snug or else it starts to strip the rest of the threads. Then the seal between the air intake and the reed valve stayed mostly on the reed valve but some came off on the air intake. Should I replace this seal? Could this cause power loss?

Lastly I didnt' realize it but I know I got some carb cleaner on my gaskets in the carb. I wiped them down but should I get a new set?

thanks.

othius · Post by **othius** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:11 pm

ok, done some adjusting of the carb. Pick up is pretty decent now 0-15 is good or at least acceptable, not sure what it should be like though. But once I hit 15 or so it bogs and starts to sputter... Any thoughts?
And nursing the throttle doesn't help much with this. But after open throttle for 15-25 seconds or so it starts to pick up again, but then after increasing speed maybe 1mph it starts to sputter again, then cycles through again 15-20 seconds sputter then pick up 1 mph, etc....

scootngo · Post by **scootngo** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:42 pm

Careful on those threads. If you look closely 1 of the carb bolts is longer than the other. The short one goes on outside.

Poor top end, I think would be a clogged main feed.

1. Clogged main tube, disassemble and clean the cross holes.
2. Wrong main jet size? Check this against the manual.
3. Maladjusted main needle? What is it, always second from the bottom. Remove the throttle slide to check this.

My observations are that 0-10 is a bit moderate on pickup, but I can feel a real kick in at about 12-15mph up to about 25, then it tapers off. Mine maxes at about 28.

othius · Post by **othius** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:59 pm

scootngo-

Thanks for the reply. I have the bolts right on the carb but just snugged one a bit too tight the first time. Hopefully it's ok, seem to be holding tight. If it isn't a tight fit, coudl that be the problem too?

A few questions: Which is the main tube?

Jet size? It appears to be all stock

Maladjusted needle. Do you mean the screw that adjusts the throttle?

scootngo · Post by **scootngo** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:46 pm

Main tube. Thats the main jet tube in the 'center' of the carb throat. Its also the largest diameter. But remember it is a tube within a tube, and the main jet at the bottom holds the smaller tube inside. So just screw out the jet and drop out the inside tube. Its important because it has a set of tiny air holes that help with fuel draw, if these get plugged you main fuel flow will change.

The main jet will have a number on it, stock is like a #65 or something. Check the pdf manual that you can download fromone of these forums.

The throttle slide inside the top right of the carb carries the main needle. A very tiny clip sets the height of the needle relative to the slide. Changing the height changes the the rich/lean mix at what 70-90% of wide open throttle.

Good luck!

deathwish · Post by **deathwish** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:54 pm

if one of ur carb bolts is begging to strip i would retap it and put a bigger bolt in it... this happend to me and before i knew it fell out and caused a whole bunch of problems for me.. by the why did u look at ur air filter at all?????

othius · Post by **othius** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:09 pm

Ok, I've cleaned out the carb, twice, put an inline gas filter in place, replaced the gas and oil, though I have a greenish 2 stroke motorcycle oil, replaced the spark plug, and it works about the same.

It's a bit peppier but still bogs at 15 and won't go over or just barely. I've been playing with the screws in the carb to adjust for better running but it doesn't really do much for speed or getting over 15.

The guy where I bought the plug suggested that maybe the muffler was plugged. I took it off and ran it around the block, no difference.

The autoshop was out of compression testers so I can't officially test that currently. But when I do the finger over the hole test it kind of pushes my finger up a bit and then pulls it back down.

The air filter is a bit interesting. On the top, there's some puddy where the screw should come through the top of the box and no screw inside. And then there's this big hole in the top next to it, kind of like someone cut something out. Could this cause problems? I've taped over the hole and played around with letting some air in and it doesn't seem to effect much.

The previous owner said they left the air intake off generally so when it wouldn't start they could spray some staring fluid in. It generally needs fluid still if it's sat for 30 minutes or so.

The guy I bought it from said that it's the diaphragm... but I have no idea what he's talking about. I'm afraid that I might need new rings, I hope not though.

Thanks for the help thus far.

cheers-
othius

othius · Post by **othius** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:10 pm

Oh, would the seal on the air intake valve between it and the reed valve cause any performance problems? My seals seem ok, I don't know if a bad one could cause these problems or not.

Post by **noiseguy** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:43 am

The guy you bought it from doesn't know what he's talking about. There is no diaphram on this model, it has a reed valve block. Diaphrams are for snowblowers and go-carts that use snow-blower motors.

You need to seal up all the gaskets on the intake side, as you may have a vacuum leak. That means replacing the gaskets and fixing the carb bolts.

You need to fix the airbox with stock parts and fasteners, and check your filter element to make sure it's clean and oiled, but not overoiled. I think that the airbox is your problem. New filters from Honda are about $4.

I'm also guessing you have marginal compression (90-100 PSI,) but that's just a hunch (hard to start.)

Remove the main jet (the only one in the carb) and look at it's number. It should be a 65 or 68. I'm betting it's been swapped. In fact, I'm betting a bunch of stuff is bodged up, based on what you're telling me.

Contact Greg at uspmale@yahoo.com for airbox parts, and possibly a new carb (he can sort the carb for you on exchange, and maybe fix the threads.) Mail him a pic of what you have now.

Post back when you get farther.