Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

I have a 85 Honda Spree that will not even pop while trying to start.
I have nice blue spark but the plug is dripping wet after about 3 seconds of using the electric start. I have new fuel. Compression is 90. Air filter is good and air box installed. Exhaust port is dirty but not clogged. Muffler removed and is clear. Auto bystart checked and seems OK according to service manual directions.
You can spray starter fluid into spark plug hole or carb intake while turning over with electric start and not even a pop.
I disassembled carb, cleaned, found none of the jets clogged including the main jet. The plastic float setting I am unsure how to measure the 12 mm setting but I don't see anyway to change it other than buying a new float. The picture in the service manual is not clear on how this measurement is made without the special tool, so my reading may not be accurate anyway.
I think for some reason (such as the float level) that the cylinder is getting too much fuel to start. The spark will jump 1/2 inch so I don't think I have an ignition problem. (I have a fairly new leaf blower 2 stroke that starts and runs great with 90 psi compression.) This scooter was running great 2 weeks ago when the previous owner indicated it has a history of not starting and the plug was wet.
Any ideas out there?

90psi for compression is weak, should be 100 or better.
A bad spark plug can spark no problem when out of the cylinder just resting on the head, but....
The conditions inside the combustion chamber are totally different. Compression of the intake charge creates a resistance that the spark must overcome. Try a brand new spark plug, correctly gapped, before tearing into the carb again.

with 90psi compression you need to pull the head and probably do a ring job. compression on a leaf blower and a 49cc scooter are going to be different.

To GearNut, you didn't know - but I have a new plug gapped and installed already. Thanks.

To Abreen89 and MotorMike- I have seen the posts on the compression but I can't believe it won't fire ONE time with 90 psi. I could understand lack of power with the engine pulling a load, etc. I can't believe that much difference in a 33 cc and a 49 cc for compression readings. I am just looking for a POP! Remember this scooter was being ridden 2 weeks ago. It only has 2900 miles on it. I just find it hard to believe I need a ring job or cylinder work at this point. I like the way you guys think so if I am wrong I'll let you know. Thanks.

On the compression reading I took the engine of course is cold (since it won't start) so a hot engine with a compression test would be higher. The engine turned over probably 5 - 7 times to get the cold reading. 90 was the final reading.

You did have the throttle wide open while doing the compression test, right?

To RagTop89: Good catch! Yes, I did have the throttle wide open. I could smell fuel after that too!

Is there oil on the top of your piston? Or oil in the crank case? This would cause it not to fire if there's too much. I'm still with the other leaning towards rings, even if it was 2 weeks ago, your rings can go just like that if something happened.

agreed have u tried putting a cap full of mix into the plug whole and starting it?? if it doesnt fire then you need to pull the head....

I tried the starter fluid in the spark plug hole but I will try fuel mix.
Also, I have it disassembled to the point that I can now turn over using the flywheel.
How much effort should it take to turn the engine over with plug installed using the flywheel/fan?
I was surprised how easy it was! If I didn't know already had 90 psi reading I would think low compression at this point.

90 is low.

I'd do the following.

Pull the plug and run the electric starter for a few seconds to clear any possible flood condition.

Clean the plug off (I use a mapp gas torch to burn the s*** off).

Is is possible that someone had the flywheel off recently? If you have a timing light, you can check to see if its firing in time (I believe its supposed to be at 15 deg BTDC)... If its not... then I'd pull the flywheel and make sure the woodruff key is still there.

If you're concerned about the float being too high like you mentioned in the original post, you could always pull the vacuum line for the petcock (plug any holes on the intake end). Crack the float bowl drain valve for a second to let a bit drip down, then try cranking it over... if it is a high float (I doubt it) then that'll tell you.

You should also make sure your pilot screw is set at factory settings (1 7/8 turns out). Check to make sure your slide is closing. I'd back the idle screw out a ways and crack the throttle by hand when trying to start it... (of course adjust from there once you get it running)

NEVER clean a plug. It causes as many problems as it cures. Just replace the d*** thing, they are dirt cheap. Besides a new plug should be done at least once a year in the spring.

Bear45-70 wrote:NEVER clean a plug. It causes as many problems as it cures. Just replace the d*** thing, they are dirt cheap. Besides a new plug should be done at least once a year in the spring.

So you swap your plug out every time you have it out when troubleshooting something?

People have been cleaning plugs for longer than you've been alive Bear.... yes even you. I agree that its not as good as swapping to a new one... but when dealing with a wet plug and trying to troubleshoot, you may be buying a few more than the NGK 4 pack if you want to swap everytime.

The original poster did mention that he had put a new plug in it during troubleshooting. I can hardly advise him to keep swapping for fresh ones when troubleshooting a minor fouling issue.

fatcharlie wrote:

Bear45-70 wrote:NEVER clean a plug. It causes as many problems as it cures. Just replace the d*** thing, they are dirt cheap. Besides a new plug should be done at least once a year in the spring.

So you swap your plug out every time you have it out when troubleshooting something?

People have been cleaning plugs for longer than you've been alive Bear.... yes even you. I agree that its not as good as swapping to a new one... but when dealing with a wet plug and trying to troubleshoot, you may be buying a few more than the NGK 4 pack if you want to swap everytime.

The original poster did mention that he had put a new plug in it during troubleshooting. I can hardly advise him to keep swapping for fresh ones when troubleshooting a minor fouling issue.

Yeah they have and as a professional 2 stroke mechanic I can tell you it is a stupid route to follow. But then you are 12 and know everything, just ask you. But you are wrong.