Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

Hello everybody, I'm Brennan in Chicago. Been riding and wrenching on vintage geared scooters, and old pedal mopeds for years. I've finally come to the realization that old bikes are not daily drivers, they are toys and should be treated as such.

I had an se50 about 10 years ago and started to really miss that thing last summer, I kept my eyes open on craigslist and was only finding beat to * no title parts bikes. Living in Illinois, getting a title when you bought without a title is insanely hard/expensive.

So I found a bigger and rounder 2001 Elite S on craigslist and picked it up yesterday for a decent price. A sticker in the underseat compartment reads SA50P1. I'm assuming this is the restricted SA50P that I have been reading about on these boards. If I'm off please correct me.

I've read a bunch on here in the past few months and if I am understanding this correctly I need to remove the variator and ditch the plate that's bolted to the back which stops the ramp plate from expanding all the way. Then I need to remove and drill out the washer in the header of the exhaust. After which I'll polish up the edges, clean out all the shavings and reinstall. The airbox mod seems straightforward enough, I have a jet set on the way so I can upjet to not seize.

Does that seem like I have it all straight?

My end goal for this scoot is an around town machine that can do lots of stop and go traffic. We don't have hills in Chicago, and I don't ever need to go faster than 45. I would like to get there as quickly as possible without sacrificing reliability.

I will not do a build thread b/c this project will evolve more than be built. Weeks if not months will go by before I upgrade the next piece so it would be hella boring for you guys.

The plan is to find another stock jug and open it up, that way if my math is off, or my cheap calipers let me down, I'll still have my jug to fall back on. There is a lot of trapped performance in and around the exhaust port on every stock bore I've ever seen so I'm hoping this holds true for the SA as well.

A lot of these probably have been asked before, sorry if that's the case. They are all on my mind right now so I'm just going to ask all of them.

Will slightly stiffer clutch springs offset the loss in acceleration that comes with installing taller gears? I know this is muddy ground, but knowledge is power.

How do I tell if I have the crappy not opening all the way oil pump? Who sells plugs? I don't mind premix.

How do I tell if I have a restricted CDI?

Are there any steeper variators that allow me to keep my stock belt? Is the Keli still available anywhere?

The rear transmission faces, I saw one from Parmakit, Malossi, and I think someone else...what's the deal with those? Do they require a belt swap?

Are there any decent 50cc pipes available in the US? I'm kinda over ordering stuff from overseas, but will if I have to. Not looking for insanely loud or high on the RPM scale.

Talk to me about reed cage swaps. On my nc50 when I swapped reeds the throttle response was instantly better and acceleration jumped. Is that the case with the SA? Is the stock reed cage small?

Anything else I need to be thinking about?

Greetings:

Welcome. Yes, the P model is restricted. You probably won't see a cable attached to your pump unless the P.O. has fiddled with it.
You need to address the variator ramp plate, the jetting, and the exhaust pipe. To hit 45, 9:1 gears and a better variator are all you need. There are (overpriced) pump plugs on eBay, or someone here can probably supply one. Mix 32:1 or whatever recipe you care to follow. Losing the oil pump has another benefit of subtracting a source of power loss geared right to the crank.

Porting the exhaust area and especially the intake port on the left side of the case may open up a bit more performance, but you really don't need to if the compression is good. 45 is almost assured with only the modifications specified.

one thing Wheelman-111 forgot to say is a 90/90 10 tire on the back of your scooter...
swimmingfree

Greetings:

If we're going for 9:1 gears, the added circumference and groundspeed per RPM of a fatter rear tire isn't needed, but it does plush up the ride and grip a little.

The pump plug also adds case pressure = more power

Sorry, that first post was super long winded.

So getting to 45 is easy. Now to get there faster.

In my experience if you mod X you have to also mod Y to counteract the effects of X.

If I put lighter weights in my variator to increase pickup, and then throw a softer center spring in the rear to balance can The engine push the belt up the steeper aftermarket ramps(both front and back) efficiently enough to justify the mod? Or does a 50cc motor not make enough RPM to max out the steeper ramps?

so your scooter is running now????
you need to see what the other person has done to it before you got it pull the pipe and see if the washer is there if not pull the carb and get a number off the jet as well pull the and see if the ramp plat has the restricted plate on it ........
swimmingfree

Yeah it runs, I bought it running.

It's dead stock and fully restricted it goes a big 29mph with my 165lbs.

It's still frozen here and my garage is unheated so I'm just asking questions until I can start wrenching.

Planning ahead so I don't blow stuff up or spend tons of dollars on parts I can't use.

ill take your weather we still have over a foot of snow here.... and have not seen 40 yet...
you need to down lod the manual and look at thing and do some reading in it .... it will help you see how things are put together and give you lots of info...
swimmingfree

Thanks for the tip on reading the manual.

I was really kind of looking for a discussion with people who may have real world experience with this. I can read books all day long but talking to someone who has done it is far more productive for me and the way I learn.

I have been riding and wrenching on two strokes for over a decade. I'm asking questions on the engine in my particular scooter, not general theory questions.

im handicap (dyslexia) and the manual is a good one lots of photo and drawing but you have to have your crayons with you .... lol
swimmingfree

Greetings:

A good aftermarket variator and perhaps 9:1 gears is all you really need to achieve your goals. You're right about one mod requiring another. Sometimes stock - or nearly stock is just fine.

Search for my "Bang for the Buck" threads where I have detailed pics about exactly the job that you are doing. Most of your questions are covered. On a stock motor I wouldn't recommend changing the gear ratios unless it is really flat ground where you live. At least do the other mods before you decide on a gear change.

I got a good deal on a Technigas exhaust. It is almost as quiet as stock and I'm working on getting the correct jetting right now.

For just around town riding and running errands I wouldn't spend the money on an exhaust. I got a good deal on mine ($125) and I love the way it looks on the bike, but I doubt if I'm going to see a big performance gain. I went from about 25 mph to about 45 with the airbox mod and a lawnmower air filter from Lowes and a drilling the exhaust and adding an 85 main jet and buying a Keli variator on Ebay with the backing plate and rollers for $45. I probably need lighter rollers since I lost a little acceleration at 25 but gained a few mph with the variator. Drilling the exhaust is a LOT easier with a good quality step bit. There is more than just a washer there on the later model bikes.

BTW I just bought an Elite with a BBK, larger carb, and a performance exhaust. There is a HUGE difference in performance if you are interested in spending about $350 or so. Others here can give you better info but I'm thinking it is approximately double the horsepower of the de-regged bike!