Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

I'm about to embark on a bottom end rebuild on an 85 Spree engine. This is the one I just got from broomhilda a couple of days ago. It's got an 87 frame and body that is in REAL good shape, but an 85 engine that is hosed. The owner before the previous owner attempted to rebuild the engine, using no gaskets at all, only the orange RTV goo. I'm talking everywhere -- from the rubber hose that goes from the carb to the air box (why would you do that?), both sides of the reed case, between the head and cylinder, and between the cylinder and crankcase. Oh, and also between the left and right halves of the crankcase (which is why the bottom end rebuild).

I took the head/cylinder/piston off and looked down in the bottom of the crankcase, and I could clearly see daylight down there where the RTV had failed. Interestingly enough, everything looks to be in decent shape overall, just covered in gooey RTV.

So, any tips/pointers for bottom end rebuild? I've never done one on a Spree before. I've already got the motor off and anticipate pulling the flywheel off tonight and splitting the crankcase. Then, cleaning, cleaning, and a whole lot more cleaning. Then perhaps some more cleaning after that before I put it all back together. Gotta get rid of this RTV.

Thanks,

-aseigler

The only thing i know about it, is that when reassembling, you want to be real careful to oil everything as you go because just pouring oil in the crankcase won't be good enough. It won't coat everything fast enough before the friction starts damaging stuff.

I bet she didn├óÔé¼Ôäót run too good with a gaping hole in the bottom of the crankcase. Haha. Actually I just completed a full ├óÔé¼Ôäó85 Spree rebuild myself. I ported everything while I was in there, and I took the time to do a nice job. If you├óÔé¼Ôäóre feeling adventurous, the intake area where the reeds sit is one place that definitely needs help. I took out every sharp edge I could find and radiused everything.

One thing you need to know is that I wasn├óÔé¼Ôäót able to get the crankcase gasket from Honda, so I had to make my own. I used some gasket material from Carquest, and traced and cut it out. It├óÔé¼Ôäós not too hard, and the new gasket was only a few thousandths different from the old one-within my tolerance range. Perhaps that├óÔé¼Ôäós why the previous owner used sealer everywhere-they couldn├óÔé¼Ôäót get the proper gasket.

I wouldn├óÔé¼Ôäót use anything that I even thought was not gasoline resistant in rebuilding it. I used a dab of Yamabond on the crankcase gasket, base gasket, and reed valve gaskets because I wanted a guarantee against air leaks. I didn├óÔé¼Ôäót leak-test my engine, but it hasn├óÔé¼Ôäót shown me any signs of an air leak yet. Actually I just started it for the first time and ran it for 10 minutes last weekend, just idling. I├óÔé¼Ôäóm going to do a few heat cycles this weekend to help break-in then I├óÔé¼Ôäóll take it out on the road and finish running it in. I├óÔé¼Ôäóm really curious if my porting will give me more power/top speed├óÔé¼┬ª

I wonder if the RTV in your engine isn├óÔé¼Ôäót gasoline resistant-maybe causing the hole between the cases? Isn├óÔé¼Ôäót the orange stuff the high temperature type? That would make cleanup easier for you though-just spray carb cleaner or gasket remover on it and wipe it off. Nevertheless, make sure the main bearings don├óÔé¼Ôäót have any of that stuff in them.
Change those main oil seals too while you├óÔé¼Ôäóre in there-better safe than sorry. A wise man once said ├óÔé¼┼ôwhen in doubt, change it out.├óÔé¼┬Ø
Check the big-end play too while you├óÔé¼Ôäóre down there. Those bearings usually last a long time though. But if oil was leaking out the bottom, I├óÔé¼Ôäód do a very careful inspection of everything. I didn├óÔé¼Ôäót do a crank rebuild on my own Spree, but I├óÔé¼Ôäód just send it to a good shop with the parts and have them do it if you need to have it done.

On reassembly, you can use some engine assembly lube (I use Engine Slick or something like that with the word ├óÔé¼┼ôslick├óÔé¼┬Ø on it), but I├óÔé¼Ôäóve found that on two strokes, a light coating of 2stroke oil is enough. I personally like to put assembly lube on the piston and bore by smearing it everywhere with my finger, and going over the rings too. Then I work the 2stoke oil into all the bearings. She├óÔé¼Ôäóll smoke for a bit once started, as it burns off the assembly lube, but it├óÔé¼Ôäós nothing to worry about. I usually run cheap oil for break-in but then switch to synthetic injector oil afterward.

If you change the piston rings/piston, make sure you hone the cylinder lightly to help the rings seal. She├óÔé¼Ôäóll never last as long if you don├óÔé¼Ôäót because the rings won├óÔé¼Ôäót wear to the bore like they would otherwise to create a good seal. I had a local machinist very lightly hone to take the glaze off of my own cylinder because I changed the rings. I don├óÔé¼Ôäót even know if he charge me for it-I had him doing work on another cylinder too so he probably didn├óÔé¼Ôäót mind the quick job.

Other than what I mentioned, everything is pretty straightforward. The Spree is a fairly easy engine to work on. As long as you take the time to do the job right, there shouldn├óÔé¼Ôäót be any major issues. Good luck with the rebuild.

No, I can't imagine it ran worth a crap with that hole between the cases. Might as well have not had a spark plug in the thing. I've already got the crankcase gasket from Honda, but I think I'll get some gasket material anyway. The orange stuff the other guy used...I don't know what it is, but it is about the consistency of peanut butter right now. Completely useless. It should be really, really easy to clean off. I think the guy put the piston on backward, too. There are slight scratches in the cylinder under the exhaust port, but the corresponding scratches on the piston are 180 degrees on the other side.

Last cylinder I had, I took it to the Honda dealer and they lightly honed the thing for me for free, took about 2 minutes or so, and it looked and felt brand new. I'll definitely be doing that again. I have to go get a flywheel puller that will fit this thing this afternoon so I can get that up and start cleaning this thing up.

Thanks!

-aseigler

Got the flywheel/alternator off, and have the crankcase split. Whoever did this "rebuild" did a really, really crappy job. He didn't bother to clean off the old gasket between the crankcase, just slapped them together with RTV and sold it "as-is". There is dirt, grime, and shreds of loose RTV all over everything. What a mess. The bearings actually look good, thankfully. I think I'm going to pull the crankshaft all the way out next.

I see the sharp parts all around the intake port. I think I'll have to grind those down before I put this thing back together. It just seems really half-assed the way it is. The flywheel was hard to get loose, but the crankcase split apart quite easily, probably thanks in part to the RTV. I used a $5 universal puller tool from the local Harbor Freight.

-aseigler

Only tip I have was already mentioned, get a quart of 4 stroke oil and pour it on everything as you reassemble it.

That's kind of strange that you could get the case gasket. I guess my local dealer isn't paying their dues to Honda or something. Anyway, I bet there are a few mph hidden away in that intake. It would be pretty easy to attack with a Dremel, but I used my diamond porting tools for it. I'm going to make sure I do a plug chop after break-in to make sure it doesn't change my jetting too.
I don't think I'll be able to get my machine out on the road to test it until next weekend though since I need to do some work to my fuel tank-it has a bit of rust in there that I really don't like. I'm also in the middle of two 4wheeler projects so I'm staying busy. But if you get your Spree back together and out before then, I'd be interested in how well it runs.

On a side note, the assembly oil I use is Permatex's Ultra Slick Engine Assembly Lube. It's red colored too, if that helps any.

Yeah, I don't think they sell just the case gasket, but if you get the whole gasket kit for the whole motor, it has the case gasket in it. That's how I got it. I'll get started pulling the rest of it apart today.

-aseigler

Evidence of possession of case gasket (I just scanned it):



It was part of gasket kit, part 061A1-GK8-407. However, I'm not confident that the gasket is thick enough. I asked this question before, but nobody answered. Do you just slap this type of gasket in and bolt it up? These gaskets don't resemble any of the old gaskets I've removed. First of all, it's blue and green instead of black, and seems thinner.

Thanks,

-aseigler

Well, I've got the thing completely torn down. Even took apart the transmission. Now I clean it all up. I'm very tempted to load everything in the dishwasher.

CharlotteSpreeRider wrote:Well, I've got the thing completely torn down. Even took apart the transmission. Now I clean it all up. I'm very tempted to load everything in the dishwasher.

At my dads work place they have this giant industrial sized "dishwasher" thats it big enough to fit a few children in. My point being, go ahead, people do it everyday with larger cleaning machines.

Just pulled it out of the dishwasher. It's much cleaner, although I did notice a bit of an issue. Inside the transmission, in the area where the rear axle oil seal would be, there is a hole. From the outside, it is exactly where the rear brake cable hardware would be routed.

I've never seen this before, so I'm a bit concerned. There's no pressure in the transmission, so it shouldn't be a huge problem given that the oil seal should cover it completely. I just don't like it because there is a hole in the left half of the crankcase I've been workiing on and I hope it's not toast because of this hole.

I can get pictures if it helps.

-aseigler