Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

Here's what I've done so far.
Replace the battery
Drained/replaced all the fluids
Soaked the fuel valve (thingy under the gas tank)
Dismantled, soaked, cleaned, etc... all carb parts,
Reinstalled all hoses, bled oil lines.

Engine turns over but won't start. I definitely do have spark. Squirted a tiny bit of carb cleaner directly into chamber, turned over and it ran for one maybe two seconds....

I'm thinking it might be my carb screws? Fuel does drain out the carb drain screw when loosened, so gas is getting to the carb. I did the 1 7/8 turn out for the air screw, left the throttle screw in so I could just see about 1/4 inch when looking in/down the carb.

Any suggestions on what to try next?
Thanks
Steve

I'm thinking it's my air filter, just checked and the 'sponge' is bone dry.

So to first clean it, the technical docs section says the following - "Wash the Element in non flammable or high flash point solvent, squeeze out and allow to dry. "
So what specifically do I use? Would mineral spirits work? Will it disintegrate the sponge material?

Steve

Oiling of air filter is to trap dirt has nothing to do with air flow. Your bystarter enriching circuit is clogged, or your idle circuit is clogged not letting gas into the choke assembly to choke the engine. Your bystarter might also be stuck in the closed position.

Clean the little brass jet in the bowl that is at an angle into the little pick up tube for the bystarter. It is about the size of the head of a pin needle. Do not enlarge it, just clean it. See other posts for testing if it is clean with light and a dark room. Next check the main idle jet that opening is about the size of the red straw on a side of a can of WD40.

Assemble and start. The carb settings are fine. When cleaning carb make sure the idle fuel/air mixture seat and opening are clean.

With my woes I played with the bystarter by removing it and plugging it with my thumb. It was then that I was able to scope out the problem with the bystarter and main jet. The bystarter testing in the manual is good to follow.

Thanks very much for the tips Jeremy! Will follow your suggestions and post my results.

Steve

What is this little hole for beside the main jet? Feels like it's plugged as well (tacky)when I slide a very small needle down it....


Found the little brass jet in the bowl that you mentioned. Soaking it overnight and will see what it's like tomorrow morning. I can feel a tackiness with the needle so I'm sure it's plugged with gunk too.

All other hole in the carb are free and clear, so this must be my problem.

Steve

My guess and only a guess is that leads to one of the holes that face the intake tube/air filter at the bottom of the carb intake tube. It allows air into the bowl in order for gas to leave and/or enter the bowl. If you had only a gas in (float needle) and gas out (main jet and idle circuit) you would have a vacuum issue since those fill and or exit at different rates. Therefore it needs to have air to allow the gas to sit in the bowl at 1 bar of presure. Since it seems to stop just at the top of the float (where air would be 100% of the time), I would say I am not too far off.

im not sure what that is but i believe it leads to a tiny hole in the passage in the carb to the intake manifold.

Still nothing!! Dammit - this is starting to tick me off.

I cleaned the little brass jet in the bowl that you mentioned. I can see light coming out of it if I stick a little christmas tree light bulb down the pickup tube. Main jet is definitely clean - I can easily see light passing through it. All other openings in the carb are clean and free

Jeremy - when you say the bystarter circuit is clogged, do you mean the item below?

Do I clean this with carb cleaner too? The directions I got for cleaning the carb said to just set this aside.

Your bystarter enriching circuit is clogged, or your idle circuit is clogged not letting gas into the choke assembly to choke the engine.
What is the idle circuit? What does it look like?

You had some great pictures of the carb--I curious about the "little brass opening in the bowl"...can you show a picture of that and I take it from reply of others it is an opening into the larger opening...mine may be plugged also but I wasn't sure it was actually suppose to be a hole thru it...thanks...Smitty

Sure Smitty - give me a few minutes.... I'll have to take the darn thing apart again anyways, to check everything - AGAIN

This little hole is really tucked away and is tiny, but I'll try to get a shot of it.

Here's the pic. Hole is on the right hand side of image - basically halfway down. Apparently the tiny hole should pass cleanly thru to the pickup tube for the bystarter.

Great pics!

Try the bystarter trouble shooting in the manual with a $25 vacuum pump from autozone or checker or napa.

I can't tell from the pic, if the oring is good, but that oring needs to seal the bystarter from allowing outside air into that area. As well it needs to be fully seated in the carb. There are 3 sealing points with the bystarter, the needle and brass cylinder seal off fuel and the black cylinder that those are attached to when it is fully down shuts off the air enriching circuit and the oring seals air from the outside so there is no vacuum leak to the carb.

I assume it is somewhat warm where you are. If the carb is set (main throttle jet needle at normal) and all holes are cleaned and you have spark and compression. This following procedure will start the engine without the bystarter installed on a running spree.

Take some starter fluid and soak the air filter with it. About 3-5 seconds of spraying then just close the air box lid. Sit on the spree and put the parking brake on to allow the start button to work. Put a left hand finger or thumb in the bystarter opening to block air and fuel from choking the engine. The starter fluid you sprayed in the air filter will take the place of the choke. Now open the throttle to full and hit the starter. It may take a second or two and sputter but once the starter fluid makes it into the cylinder it will fire if it has spark. It will start and you should be able to control the throttle for 30 seconds to get it to stay at idle. If this works then the bystarter is the problem. You will notice that if you pull your finger/thumb out of the bystarter hole it will race high and then die as you will have enriched it to the point of drowning the spark plug.

Since you are removing the carb a bunch of times if the bowl is not full of fuel it will take some time for the bowl to fill. I have primed the fuel bowl of the carb by pulling the vacuum line at the intake side that goes to the pet * and use a vacuum pump with about 5-10 psi to open the pet * and allow the fuel into the carb until the float shuts off the fuel. (I let it sit and fill for maybe 4 minutes). Then obviously reattach the vacuum line to the intake.

If this does not start the spree your carb main jet is not as unclogged as you think or you do not have spark. Those are the only things in the equation with this process. This process removes a lot of variables ( the bystarter, idle circuit and enriching circuit) from the starting sequence as well as the idle mixture and idle air adjusting screws since you are on full throttle.

I may post a short video of this procedure to show how it works.

Even if you have poor compression it should start but die if you go much above 1/4 throttle.

Good luck!

thats a good idea. it would be cool to have a video section on repair.... or just jumping, pulling a wheelie. or whatever. whatever happened to that spree jumper?

nelly wrote:What is this little hole for beside the main jet? Feels like it's plugged as well (tacky)when I slide a very small needle down it....


Found the little brass jet in the bowl that you mentioned. Soaking it overnight and will see what it's like tomorrow morning. I can feel a tackiness with the needle so I'm sure it's plugged with gunk too.

All other hole in the carb are free and clear, so this must be my problem.

Steve

That's your idle jet. Don't push metal things down that, you can enlarge it doing that. At most use a toothpick. Make sure you can get carb fluid through it or the bike won't idle.

Nelly, in picture #1 your red arrow points to the idle jet. This tiny hole must be open for the Spree to idle. If this hole is blocked (and if all other components are working properly), the bike will start but will only run for a few seconds, then die. I think it is best to visually confirm that this passage is clear. In picture #3 you show the small hole in the float bowl wall which allows gas to enter the reservoir for the bystarter unit. This hole must be open for the extra gas needed to start the engine that has not warmed up. I believe a small paperclip will do the trick and you can see it come through the hole if the passage is open. If this hole is blocked completely, the Spree will not start when cold. If it is partially blocked, it could take some time for gas to fill up the chamber and you would have to wait for a time (while gas slowly trickled into the chamber) before the cold Spree would fire up. Picture #2 shows the bystarter. Bench test the bystarter as explained in previous posts. Also make sure the pickup tube and the horizontal passage from the bystarter chamber to the maine carb chamber are open. These are large holes, unlikely to be obstructed, but should be checked nontheless. Good luck.