1st Spree - 1984 - Having a problem going WOT

xsh0rty · Post by **xsh0rty** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:44 pm

First off let me say that this website rules! I was so relieved to find such a place exists, and I wouldnt have gotten this far already if it wasnt for the wonderful guides/tools/members previous posts. Sooo.... I picked up this 84 spree off craigslist for $300, she is in great shape, has all the cosmetic panels, no tears on the seat.

Scooter turns on and runs like a champ. The only problem I have is whenever i try to go WOT i can feel the scooter loosing power, it doesnt start "dying" but you can tell giving it more gas wont help you at all, and as soon as you drop the gas just slightly you can feel the rpms rising again. The only problem about the scooter that i have noticed is that the hose running from the airbox to the carb is missing, therefore the scooter has been running with no filter at all - and by common sense I know that dirt etc inside ur carb/motor is not a good thing, and from previous experience with small scooters I know that intake pressure is somewhat important so i figured my WOT problems were related to not having an air filter on.

I have already took apart the carb and cleaned it out, though to my suprise, there was NO gunk or build up ANYWHERE on the carb, but i got to see different components and how they worked.

After re-tuning my carb to my best attempt on finding stock settings, after riding the scooter the WOT problem seemed to improve slightly,
even without a filter.

So my next step i went to pep boys and bought an air breather traditionally for a car motor and then attached it to a small piece of radiator hose and built myself a intake filter. After installing, i was losing power all over the place, couldnt give it gas at all without it dying, would run for a couple seconds then start to die, so i pulled over and pulled OFF the air filter. I was already on the road so decided to leave the filter off and just go home... after i took OFF the filter, i was FLYING, my 84 scooter was going 35mph EZ on flat road....

so after all that info.... what do you think is goin on?
ive read over storage the petcock can get clogged or something?

oh ya I changed the plug too - when i pulled the old one it was pretty normal, nice ash brown color, there was a small amount of oil on the plug.

also i dont see any smoke when I ride, am i running to lean?

ok im gonna stop typing now, thanks in advance everyone

Bear45-70 · Post by **Bear45-70** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:24 am

Two words "Too lean" and changing to the POS air cleaner just made it worse.

xsh0rty · Post by **xsh0rty** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:31 am

im going to assume your own personal limited knowledge led to your sharp response.

sooooo what should i do!?!? dont just call me a dork, tell me how to be cool! hah... I have seen a couple scooters on here running off of air breathers as i described.

Dac · Post by **Dac** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:57 am

proper settings on the carb, and a real air filter is needed.

the spree is very picky to the stock air filter. I know it might sound crazy but its true. You need to find some hosing or something and find a way to hook the stock box back up.
There is another topic right now where we are trying to find out why hi-flow filters do not want to work. If we find out we can help you, but as of now we dont know.

Dac · Post by **Dac** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:01 am

no air filter= more flow

higher flow, without rejetting will cause you to run lean.

lean- bad. Fix the problem before you ride it to much. a perfect color plug looks something like this...

Bear45-70 · Post by **Bear45-70** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:29 am

xsh0rty wrote:im going to assume your own personal limited knowledge led to your sharp response. sooooo what should i do!?!? dont just call me a dork, tell me how to be cool! hah... I have seen a couple scooters on here running off of air breathers as i described.

Limited? I would suspect I have more training and worked on more 2 strokes than you have seen.

ALOW1 · Post by **ALOW1** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:09 am

Bear45-70 wrote:Two words "Too lean" and changing to the POS air cleaner just made it worse.

If it was running with no filter it would be running lean.

If it was running with the stock filter on, it would not be as lean because there would be some air flow restriction.

If the filter he put on had more restriction then a stock one, then it would be running rich.

He says it would not hardly run with the filter on so he pulled over and took it off. Then the scooter ran really good for a bit.

If it was running rich and then all of a sudden you made it lean, it would run great for a little bit as the motor burns off the excess oil.

Or am I wrong on this?

xsh0rty · Post by **xsh0rty** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:22 am

the only reason i bought a pep boys filter was simply to make a fix for dust/dirt flowing into my carb, i dont want it to sound like i was tryin to get "my per-for-manze on y0!" haha - ya my plug color looks very similar to the picture posted, I actually purchased two plugs, and gapped them one at .06 and one at .07 to see if I could notice a difference, I didn't. So you guys think my no filter situation is the reason for my WOT problem? Unfortunatley I don't have the stock filter nor the "top" to the airbox.... I wonder if I could somehow restrict more air using the filter I already have... IE maybe oiling up a household sponge and shoving it up the hose im currently using to restrict air? Back in the day I would use sponges on my 4x4 and change it out every other time i went mudding. it still doesnt make sense to me... when i put my mouth up to the filter and breathe, I dont notice a difference in air pressure/resistance.. how can my tiny carb notice! haha

Bear: I ran a personal driving service where i experimented/used about six different brands of scooters made from around the world for my drivers to meet their clients, I'm only trying to learn as much as I can about Sprees, and well honestly dude if you dont really have anything positive to say to help me out why are you posting? Doono if im comming off the wrong foot just seemed like you were very quick on what I am doing wrong but you failed to mention anything on how to fix my problem?? dont wanna * off the gawds though haha...

thanks guys i will be back in the lab experimenting - running to lean will eventually ruin my rings correct?

hondaman · Post by **hondaman** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:25 am

Dont worry about Bear. He gets a little crotchety once in awhile probably because he is old and decrepid, and is married to a witch. Right Bear!
Yes running too lean will wreck your engine sooner probably than later.
I would try and source a stock filter and air hose to be safe.

Bear45-70 · Post by **Bear45-70** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:42 am

xsh0rty wrote: Bear: I ran a personal driving service where i experimented/used about six different brands of scooters made from around the world for my drivers to meet their clients, I'm only trying to learn as much as I can about Sprees, and well honestly dude if you dont really have anything positive to say to help me out why are you posting? Doono if im comming off the wrong foot just seemed like you were very quick on what I am doing wrong but you failed to mention anything on how to fix my problem?? dont wanna * off the gawds though haha...

You want a challenge? try tuning this?

Post by **noiseguy** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:57 am

You need to replace the missing tube with a Honda part and put on a stock filter or clean the existing one. That will fix it.

Clivester · Post by **Clivester** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:52 pm

If you can't get the air filter tube right away and need to ride the bike here's a temporary fix:

Put the Pep Boys filter back on. Find a tin can that just fits over the filter and figure out a way to keep it secured. Poke a few small holes in the tin can (not too many) and see how it runs. Keep poking holes in the can with a nail (about 3mm dia) a few at a time and road test until it seems to run right (you should see gradual improvement as you add holes). At that point do a plug chop to make sure its not running too lean. If you go too far with the holes, have a second identical can standing by and put fewer holes in it.

Stand back and admire your Ghetto race filter!!

Not guaranteed 100% but has worked for me in the past!

Don't use a baked beans can - it might back-fire on you!

Clive.

xsh0rty · Post by **xsh0rty** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:19 pm

ya when i was laying down about to go to sleep I was actually thinking about putting a sweatband over the filter to try and restrict airflow, well I guess ill think of something. thanks for the help guys.

Kenny_McCormic · Post by **Kenny_McCormic** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:00 pm

Sprees, ABSOLUTELY HATE running anything besides a complete stock filter system.

xsh0rty · Post by **xsh0rty** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:37 pm

well... after a good couple hours of experiments, I came up with this. What i did was wrap an old sock over the the air filter like it was a jimmy hat, then used some tape to further restrict the air. after removing some tape, then adding some tape, then removing some more I think i got it tuned pretty good so i wont fear ruining the motor while searching for a stock airbox. I can take it all the way up to WOT without any hesitation on the motor. It got up to about 31-32mph on the flats i was really happy! Should I see a little blue smoke when im riding or none at all? When i first covered the entire air filter in tape i was seeing alot of blue smoke but it wasnt running good at all, (too rich?) am i still running too lean because im not seing any?