Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

Hey all,

I spent about 15 minutes searching through the forums trying to find a solution for this problem to no avail (a few leads, but nothing completely similar to my problem). I'm a newb, so please accept my apologies for missing what I'm sure are obvious symptoms of a problem.

So I've been riding around on my '01 SA50 i picked up for $600 two months ago, and I absolutely love it.

Recently however, starting has become somewhat of an issue. I try to use the kick-start over the electric start because the electric start doesn't seem to pop it on as quickly. It used to start right up but recently it has been harder to start and get going. This morning it took me 15 minutes to start up and ride on in.

What happens is when I'm starting it'll start at a real low idle, I'll let on the throttle very slightly and it'll die out. I did this for about 5 minutes on the stand trying to get it going. I was alternating between the electric and kick start. It would start, and I would let it run for a few minutes, but it would never go to a normal idle - and would bog out immediately after touching the throttle. I noted the sound it made while bogging down, it didn't sound like it was drowning so much, sounded more like arcing wires. After about 15 minutes of this I was finally able to get a decent idle going and the throttle finally responded. I let it sit at WOT for about 30 seconds on the stand and it *spewed* out white smoke (rich?). I took it off the stand and "rode it like I stole it" all the way to work (~4 miles). For the first mile or so there was some smoke coming out of the exhaust, but not nearly as much. After about a mile the throttle response got very good. After getting to work, I turned it off, and kicked it right back on again with no drama.

This weekend I worked at my fire department the whole weekend so it sat from Friday afternoon until this morning. This seems to be getting worse every Monday morning when I get out to start it up.

I bought the scooter off of craigslist and it started very well initially, but recently has become harder to start. I don't believe there have been any mods made to the bike, everything looks like original parts from the pics. I've been putting Halvoline TC-W3 2-stroke in the oil tank everytime I fill up. I was planning on switching to Honda GN2 after this quart runs out (it came with the scooter). I've gone through probably 7-8 gallons of 87 octane so far and have dropped about half a quart of 2-stroke in so far.

The carb is pretty greasy and has been leaking oil (blue on the ground) very slightly. Thinking a take-apart and clean would be a good start (nice pics on the how-to). I'll keep hunting the forums for more leads, but any obvious advice or any yelling at me if I'm doing something stupid would be appreciated!

Thanks!

jzambon wrote:The carb is pretty greasy and has been leaking oil (blue on the ground) very slightly.

The carb should not have any oil in it. That may indicate the problem.

Your reeds may be allowing compression to leak back into intake manifold and blow oil into the carb. Check them. They are under the manifold port. You will need new gaskets when you do or you can cut them from gasket paper.

Do it soon before you blow your engine from a lack of oil

took apart the carb and the intake manifold, couldn't find any blue fluid or evidence of oil. It smells strongly of gasoline, but no oil is apparent.

currently cleaning the carb, i also bought some gasket paper to replace the gasket in the intake manifold. What should I be looking at in the reeds?

thanks for the advice, I'll keep you posted!

Greetings:

Sometimes it's the simple stuff. Always start with a fresh spark plug. CLeaning the carb is a very good idea. Bench test the Bystarter too, and be sure its port to the bowl is clear. Just a hunch, but be absolutely sure your vacuum connections between the intake and fuel petcock are tight. If in doubt, replace the line for a couple of bucks. Put clamps on it, even if the line is tight to the fitting. Finally check the function of the float needle. While you're mucking about, see what the oil pump looks like. If you pull it out and there's an obvious drip - it won't be easy to see because it's usually a very slow leak - you may have a culprit. The longer time goes by, the more oil drips into the crankcase. I've disassembled one that was literally half full.

I would do a compression test while you have the plug out. A guage is available at Harbor Freight for under ten bucks. I think you'll find it's OK, because I'm betting it's your reed valves.

The reed valves on your Elite should be fiberglass. The epoxy laminating resin goes soft with age. (So do many Wheelman parts... ) Sometimes the edges chip off. (Actually that hasn't happened to me yet...) Even if they look like they close completely, the floppiness of the material can cause issues, especially at low engine RPM and part-throttle operation. Replace them.

Thanks for the help! I finished cleaning the carb this evening and once my head stops spinning I'll head on over to honda to get a new plug and set of reeds.

Greetings:

Don't forget reed block gaskets. They may not have them (or the reed petals...) in stock. If you're in a hurry, you can clean up the surfaces, being careful not to gouge the soft aluminum with your scraper. Then Permatex Copper or Hi-Temp Hylomar can be used to seal the surfaces. An airtight junction is extremely important, so take your time here.

Don' breeth da fumes!

Wheelman,

Thanks for the help! I purchased some gasket paper after doing some searching and finding what the reeds were actually used for (exemplifying the importance of a good seal for a poor newb).

On the advice of other posts regarding this issue, I was thinking of also putting a dab of lithium grease on the sides of the gasket and carefully smearing it around in case it needs to be lifted again.

Are carbon reeds available? I'm guessing they're more durable - do they provide any performance boost?

Pics of my reed block:



Thanks again!